# Let's talk about private scrip & Facebook's upcoming attempt at it **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690 "2019-06-18T16:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/61 "2019-07-03T15:29:42Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Cyberpunky extraterritorial corporations aren’t much better than governments. In fact they’re worse in every respect. Ok here’s one vote against. Luckily votes will no longer matter. No offense. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/62 "2019-07-03T15:49:53Z")
“Luckily” ? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/63 "2019-07-03T16:02:40Z")
I wouldn’t use the descriptor “luckily” but he’s right. That’s where they want to go. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/64 "2019-07-13T12:24:40Z")
Sorry to have abandoned this thread. I went away on a trip and forgot I had posted about this. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Aye; we’re at the cusp of a change in bloc ideation. China, IMO, isn’t even prepared for it. Immortal persons (companies) will be a challenge for geographically contained blocs to overcome. I mean, how do you contain an immortal entity that has no form and exists simultaneously around the globe in many unique single entities? > > I dunno if that’s the goal of the people involved in this, but this is a way to chip away at nations’ sovereignty. And once the chips start flying, well, I’m not sure they’ll stop for a long, long time. Who’s gonna be in charge: the people with the money or the people? As bad as Facebook is and as atrocious and cavalier with privacy as they are, I worry about Amazon and Google just as much. The more that these FANG companies and their offshoots invest away from tech and more into ‘hard’ products that we rely on every day - things like food, transportation, energy - the more control they could potentially have. The tech and data side of their business enables them to hack our brains - we know that. But as we already know, they gather data to influence our commerce and what we purchase. What Facebook is trying to do (and I think others will follow) is to reward our thoughts and consumption by giving us some tokens to play with, but those tokens could be the currency by which future transactions take place. And the Machine follows you everywhere you go. It can even predict where you’re about to go, who you’re about to visit, what you’re about to do, and more importantly, what you’re about to consume. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/65 "2019-10-13T05:28:38Z")
[Libra is back in the news](https://apnews.com/bb79fe7b315d43a188bd46318f8a990c) and most of the news is not good. > [@](#): > > On Friday, Visa and MasterCard announced their departures from the Libra project, as did e-commerce giant eBay and payments startup Stripe. Last week, PayPal became the first major company to drop out of Libra. The exodus comes amid growing — not to mention stronger-than-anticipated — regulatory pushback against Libra in the U.S. and elsewhere. > > “It’s a big setback for them but it’s not the end,” said Gartner analyst Avivah Litan. It should be the end, but it won’t be. Facebook is too big to just give up; they have the financial strength to try and bend the system to their will. > [@](#): > > Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg will appear before Congress later this month to talk about the company’s plans for Libra. Rep. Maxine Waters, the California Democrat who heads the House Financial Services Committee where Zuckerberg will testify on Oct. 23, called Libra “a new Swiss-based financial system” that potentially is too big to fail and could require a taxpayer bailout. That would be awesome, I’m sure. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter what anyone wants, because Facebook is a giant, non-corporeal ‘person’ who simultaneously exists all over the world. > [@](#): > > Litan said Facebook can still easily launch Libra in countries with no pushback, of which there are plenty. She also dismissed the idea that Facebook needs partner companies such as MasterCard or Visa in order to keep Libra afloat. > > “The only reason they want the companies is because it looks good,” she said. “It was never a democratic blockchain. It was always run by Facebook and a couple of financial companies that were going along for the ride.” > > Now, those are just not going on the ride. > > “You have to remember, this is the blockchain. This is the internet. It’s pretty much unstoppable,” she added. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/66 "2019-10-13T07:11:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I also raised an eyebrow at that post and would be curious to hear **Isamu** ’s answers to these questions. The difference is subtle but important. As a currency is issued by a government, the laws of that country support the currency - in that people are legally required to accept the currency as valid payment. That’s part of what lets a currency retain value. But you are right, the future is unknown territory and if a company gets big enough to provide everything you need then you have that company’s promise to accept their points as value and it should be reliable, so it could be a distinction without difference. But the govt. could collapse with the drop in tax revenue. lols ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/67 "2019-10-13T08:42:20Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Libra is back in the news](https://apnews.com/bb79fe7b315d43a188bd46318f8a990c) and most of the news is not good. It looks like it’s dead in the water, whatever Facebook says. There’s no real use for it except building Facebook’s little empire and getting round government regulations. And if it can’t be used to get round government regulations, there’s no incentive for anyone to use it. As I pointed out earlier on this thread, solutions already exist to allow people without bank accounts to transfer money and make payments using only a phone. Such systems have been in use successfully for many years in third-world countries, using real currencies, not company points. Not even a smart phone is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/68 "2019-10-14T22:29:24Z")
Seems like public opinion and the market solved this one pretty well. No one wants Facebook to run a monetary system because Facebook is not trustworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/69 "2019-10-15T02:44:35Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > It looks like it’s dead in the water, whatever Facebook says. > [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Seems like public opinion and the market solved this one pretty well. No one wants Facebook to run a monetary system because Facebook is not trustworthy. [Facebook wants to run a monetary system. And bunch of other people want it too](https://apnews.com/61d11a874ea74eb3a8b3298522a7d475). > [@](#): > > Facebook officially moved forward with its plans Monday to create a new digital currency called Libra, despite several high-profile defections from the project and intense criticism from U.S. regulators and politicians. > > The Libra Association, the nonprofit that will govern the currency, officially signed on 21 charter members on Monday at the organization’s inaugural meeting in Geneva. Originally the Libra Association had 27 potential members, but several companies dropped out in recent days, including Visa, Mastercard and PayPal. > > Most of the remaining members of the Libra Association consist of venture capital firms, who often have an eye on emerging technologies and align with Facebook’s interests, as well as nonprofits. But some larger companies who are now members of the association include Uber, Lyft, Spotify and European telecommunications company Vodafone. The association said in a statement that an unnamed additional 180 entities have expressed interest and have met the initial requirements to join. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/70 "2019-10-15T13:33:33Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Seems like public opinion and the market solved this one pretty well. No one wants Facebook to run a monetary system because Facebook is not trustworthy. Most credit card companies aren’t [trustworthy](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mastercard-lawsuit-britain-idUSKCN11E2S9), either, but we are happy to let them hold our money. The only difference is that your Visa gift card is denominated in dollars, but really that’s a meaningless distinction; if Visa goes bust, the US Government is not going to refund your gift card purchase price. So long as Libra functions as a gift card it will probably be okay. The more they try to turn it into a true currency, the worse it will be. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/71 "2019-10-15T14:18:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Most credit card companies aren’t [trustworthy](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mastercard-lawsuit-britain-idUSKCN11E2S9), either, but we are happy to let them hold our money. The only difference is that your Visa gift card is denominated in dollars, but really that’s a meaningless distinction; if Visa goes bust, the US Government is not going to refund your gift card purchase price. > > So long as Libra functions as a gift card it will probably be okay. The more they try to turn it into a true currency, the worse it will be. I don’t understand who the target for these alternate currencies are supposed to be. I assume that this is probably not targeted to people in countries like Zimbabwe or Venezuela with unstable national currencies. If users are worried about major currencies like the dollar or euro becoming worthless, everyone is going to be having major problems, and having a few Libra (or bitcoin or actual gold coins) isn’t going to help in that type of scenario. What type of usage does Facebook foresee for this Libra? People paying for their Farmville and Candy Crush in game purchases? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/72 "2019-10-15T16:33:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Most credit card companies aren’t [trustworthy](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mastercard-lawsuit-britain-idUSKCN11E2S9), either, but we are happy to let them hold our money. I’m not sure that link proves anything. For one, it’s an allegation that Mastercard denies, for two, I don’t think that failing to abide by a law regulating fees they can charge, even if they did do it, relates very much to consumer trust. I trust credit card companies, both explicitly and implicitly, vastly more than almost any other companies I regularly do business with. **Snowboarder Bo** , sure, there are a lot of companies who would like to own and extract rents from a global monetary system. But it has ever been thus. There don’t seem to be a lot of customers interested, which is the real trick with monetary systems. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/73 "2019-10-17T19:18:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > [snip] facebook users who start using Lira. Interesting typo. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/74 "2019-10-17T19:20:34Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > **Snowboarder Bo** , sure, there are a lot of companies who would like to own and extract rents from a global monetary system. But it has ever been thus. **There don’t seem to be a lot of customers interested** , which is the real trick with monetary systems. I had no idea there was a wealth of data available re: the bolded part. I suspect it is similar to the general public’s disinterest in using tethers to nuclear-powered teleporting ducks for transportation needs. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/75 "2019-10-17T20:42:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I had no idea there was a wealth of data available re: the bolded part. > > I suspect it is similar to the general public’s disinterest in using tethers to nuclear-powered teleporting ducks for transportation needs. I’m not sure what you’re arguing here, but I think this supports my claim? Maybe I’m misunderstanding something. Could you rephrase your point? There are lots and lots of examples of companies thinking “wouldn’t it be awesome if I could get a small percentage of a huge number of financial transactions!” and very few of them turn into anything because that’s not the hard part. I am, like most people, disinterested in nuclear-powered-duck-teleportation, but if Facebook made a press release about an upcoming product in that arena, I don’t think that press release would be very convincing proof that it was going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/76 "2019-10-22T20:12:54Z")
[Facebook now saying they won’t launch Libra unless “all” U.S. regulators approve.](https://apnews.com/a38b5a8ad6be4ecdb75b45ffa38ab1b0) I admit I’m unclear on exactly which U.S. regulators would have to approve a private scrip. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/77 "2019-10-23T20:33:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Facebook now saying they won’t launch Libra unless “all” U.S. regulators approve.](https://apnews.com/a38b5a8ad6be4ecdb75b45ffa38ab1b0) > > I admit I’m unclear on exactly which U.S. regulators would have to approve a private scrip. Because it’s a cryptocurrency that people may buy not with the intention to use it as private scrip but with the intention to profit off its appreciation (as many people have bought other cryptocurrencies), they have to convince the SEC that it’s not legally a security, or they have to convince the SEC that they’re selling it in the way that you are legally allowed to sell a security. Both of those are difficult tasks. There might be others, but that’s the big one. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/78 "2019-10-24T02:35:05Z")
[Zuckerberg testified to Congress today about Libra](https://apnews.com/dbfdd58cefe846c7ac82457c2b9e0ea5); it did not go smoothly for him. > [@](#): > > Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg endured hours of prickly questioning from lawmakers Wednesday as he defended the company’s new globally ambitious project to create a digital currency while also dealing with widening scrutiny from U.S. regulators. > > Representatives also grilled Zuckerberg on Facebook’s track record on civil rights, hate speech, privacy and misinformation — not surprising given the litany of scandals Facebook has been dealing with over the past two years. > [@](#): > > Rep. Maxine Waters, the California Democrat who chairs the panel, said the Libra project and the digital wallet that would be used with it, Calibra, “raise many concerns relating to privacy, trading risks, discrimination … national security, monetary policy and the stability of the global financial system.” > > Furthermore, Waters told Zuckerberg, “You have opened up a discussion about whether Facebook should be broken up.” > [@](#): > > Trust was a central theme of the hearing. Given Facebook’s history, “why should Congress, regulators and the public trust you to create what amounts to the world’s largest bank, what really amounts to a shadow sovereign government?” asked Rep. Madeleine Dean, a Democrat from Pennsylvania. > > Responded Zuckerberg: “Well, congresswoman, we are not creating a bank. We are helping an organization create a payment system.” 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690/79 "2019-10-24T06:00:13Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > 1. They separate the pain of spending money from the purchase process. It’s psychologically much easier to use dollars to buy gems, then use gems to buy video game items than if you had to pull out your credit card each time. It also serves to obfuscate the real value of what one is spending (often on impulse) which can be manipulated further, and can be used to sneak in price hikes or fixes much more easily. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-private-scrip-facebooks-upcoming-attempt-at-it/835690.md?page=3)