# Let's talk about salsa dancing! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512 "2010-06-17T04:16:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/1 "2010-06-17T04:16:30Z")
I’ve been taking salsa lessons for a couple months now, and it’s amazing to me that I only now really discovered how much fun dancing is. Any other Dopers into it? At the beginning, it was pretty embarrassing to go to social dances. The basic pattern was: ask a girl to dance, completely stumble through a 7-minute song while losing the beat 15 times and going through 10 basics in a row before figuring out the next move. And only having 2-3 moves, causing the girl to roll her eyes as you do a standard right turn for the 20th time. And then it turning out that the girl is an amazing dancer, as I watch in awe as she tears up the dance floor with a competent lead. I feel like this period REALLY sapped my will to dance, and I was very close to quitting. But one night, after several disastrous dances in a row, something just clicked. Oh, it was nothing special, really. But I managed to actually feel the beat for most of the song, most of my leads were understood and executed with a passing semblance of crispness. A couple of times, the moves actually flowed into each other, and it actually felt like we really had a purely physical communication that was truly responding to the music. Right then and there, I became hooked. I’m still not very good, but I think I’m over that hump of embarrassment and timidity. I’ll ask anyone to dance now, even one that has competed in international competitions, and feel no shame about it. Though, to be fair, those super-good follows are still sometimes struggling to mask their boredom. But I have no problem being their charity dance for the night! Some questions: - It seems that salsa music is often pretty hard to stay on beat to, since the rhythm itself is so syncopated; swing, waltz, cha cha, bachata, etc. all seem much easier to follow. Is this something you just have to get used to (everyone tells me this), or are there any tricks to it? - What do you guys out there do when the follow has limp limbs, offering no frame or resistance? I’ve heard mixed things about whether or not you should try to give advice, and I’m curious as to what y’all think. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/2 "2010-06-17T04:56:09Z")
My husband and I took a couple of years of latin dancing, and we love it, too. Any time we get up and do a merengue or salsa at a Christmas party or something, it always wows the crowd (and we’re truly not that good). We don’t find the beat of a salsa hard to follow at all, but we do have to be careful to not attempt a really fast salsa - we’re not in any shape to be going THAT fast! I don’t know what you can do about a limp-limbed follow; you have my sympathy, though. It’s hard to lead someone who doesn’t know enough to keep their arms and frame firm - I’d try telling them to firm it up, but only if you don’t care if they get insulted or not. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/3 "2010-06-17T06:37:56Z")
I go through phases, but I’ve done salsa on and off for years. It’s very fun. > [@Windwalker](#): > > - It seems that salsa music is often pretty hard to stay on beat to, since the rhythm itself is so syncopated; swing, waltz, cha cha, bachata, etc. all seem much easier to follow. Is this something you just have to get used to (everyone tells me this), or are there any tricks to it? I don’t usually have problems finding or following the beat (though I’ve had problems following leads who can’t find the beat). Maybe I’ve been lucky in the songs that the places that I go play. Maybe if you listen to more salsa music when you’re not trying > [@](#): > > - What do you guys out there do when the follow has limp limbs, offering no frame or resistance? I’ve heard mixed things about whether or not you should try to give advice, and I’m curious as to what y’all think. Do not give advice to anyone who hasn’t asked for it. And think twice about giving advice to someone who has. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/4 "2010-06-17T09:42:52Z")
> [@Windwalker](#): > > - It seems that salsa music is often pretty hard to stay on beat to, since the rhythm itself is so syncopated; swing, waltz, cha cha, bachata, etc. all seem much easier to follow. Is this something you just have to get used to (everyone tells me this), or are there any tricks to it? I see it as having a similar rhythm to cha cha cha. Well, or I follow the same rhythm as chachacha, since I learned that later. It is different from others because it is not a 2 count or 4 count combination, it is a 3-count combination. I’d say, try to follow the rhythm of the percussion (drums or cowbell), since that is the accent. Hitting that accent with your moves. Now, the rhythm for me is relatively easy to follow, as I’ve listened to the music all my life and I love it. But really, I didn’t become a halfway decent (female) dance partner until I was 23 or so. In salsa, for the female, it is important to let yourself go. A limp partner IMHO would offer as much resistance as someone who is really pushing opposite the male partner because in both cases, they’re making the male partner work extra hard to lead. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/5 "2010-06-17T12:44:07Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Maybe if you listen to more salsa music when you’re not trying that should be “not trying to dance” ---
**Author:** ![Sandra\_Battye](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sandra_battye/32/552_2.png) [@Sandra\_Battye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandra_Battye)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/6 "2010-06-17T17:25:10Z")
Remember that every person started out as a beginner, and became the amazing (or not so amazing) dancer they are now. Don’t feel bad for being a beginner. It doesn’t last long. If you can, try taking some rumba or cha-cha lessons. The measures are easier to find. You don’t say if you are at social dances in studios or in clubs. If in studios, I think it’s more acceptable to offer advice. In either setting, comment along the lines of “I’m a beginner, so if you keep a tighter/firmer frame, it will make it easier for me.” Phrase it as something to help **you** improve. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/7 "2010-06-17T17:31:21Z")
I think maybe I don’t understand the whole “lead” vs. “follow” thing. A friend has been teaching me swing and every now and then he says to me “You’re leading.” I don’t change anything I’m doing, but then he seems happy a few steps after that, so I’m not sure I know how to lead. Or when I’m leading. Because I don’t think I understand what the lead is supposed to do and what I’m supposed to do as the follower. All I know is I’m supposed to dance backwards and the “lead” gets to dance with a forward motion. Or it could just be my rebellious nature; I am _not_ a follower, in general. 😉 Anyway, can anyone esplain? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/8 "2010-06-17T18:37:34Z")
In salsa usually the guy leads, the woman follows. This is the standard practice. A good lead will make any mediocre female dancer look pretty dancing, so long as she follows his lead. It is sort of call and response game… Sort of… A good female dancer knows the steps she’s supposed to do with the “lead” the guy gives. A movement, a hand position, some body gesture, footwork, will let the woman know where she’s supposed to go. A good lead knows enough to keep the rhythm and has some ideas of what moves would or would not work with it (and at what time). Now, the same can apply in reverse, but it is much less common. My parents, for example. Mom leads, and dad follows. But dad follows mom so well, that it looks like they’re both good dancers, when in fact only one of them is (mom). And when there are two of the same gender, it goes by mutual agreement. Sometimes they switch back and forth, sometimes the more experienced leads. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/9 "2010-06-17T18:39:54Z")
I started learning how to salsa dance in February, and go to a load of social/club dances at clubs and studios. My salsa teacher(s) all teach the LA “on-one” club style, with a large portion of merengue, bachata, and chacha mixed in. One thing my main salsa teacher, C, drummed into me pretty early on was that whilst lessons were a good way to learn the basics, the only way to improve was to practice, practice, practice. And then some. The best way is by dancing with others, and by not being afraid to dance with leads who are “better” than you. **Dogzilla** , the lead is the one who calls the shots in salsa. The lead tells the follow when to turn, when they’re turning, when the follow’s going to do a cross body turn, whether you’re going to do a crazy insane turn pattern, or a simple 2 o’clock turn, etc etc. As the follow, your job, as C keeps telling me, is to “do what you’re told and look cute whilst doing it”. 😉 And as a follow, you do dance forward, just on 5 rather than on 1! My newest thing at the moment is rueda del casino. Basically, Cuban-style salsa, mainly danced in a Cuban step (open breaks/guapeja), but danced as a group, in a circle, with calls, partner swaps, intricate moves, lifts and dips. It **rules**! And **Amarinth** has the right idea with listening to salsa music when you’re not trying to dance. Salsa music has a very distinct beat, called the son clave, which, after some practice, you should be able to hear and pick out in a track. If you can hear that, it’ll help keep the beat. Its something I’ve been learning to do recently so I don’t rely exclusively on my lead to keep the beat. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/10 "2010-06-17T18:41:01Z")
If someone is saying you’re leading, and they do not want you to lead, that means you’re offering too much resistance to their cues, and that you want to impose your way of dancing to the partner. Again, usually male partner leads in salsa. Dancing, salsa especially… One of the few activities where I do not mind the guy being in charge. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/11 "2010-06-17T18:43:51Z")
**Angua** , I’ve found my dancing improves much better if I dance with leads that are better than me. Actually, I’m snotty and only dance with leads better than me. 😉 If they’re good, they’ll pick on my weaknesses fast, and spin me around and make me look cute. Plus, they’ll try to teach you a step or two while dancing with you, mostly by repeating it again and again until you get it. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/12 "2010-06-17T18:47:30Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > **Angua** , I’ve found my dancing improves much better if I dance with leads that are better than me. Actually, I’m snotty and only dance with leads better than me. 😉 If they’re good, they’ll pick on my weaknesses fast, and spin me around and make me look cute. Plus, they’ll try to teach you a step or two while dancing with you, mostly by repeating it again and again until you get it. I try to dance with everyone rather than just leads who are better than me (the salsa community here is small and word gets round fast if you’re a snotty follow! 😉 ). But yeah, I improve a lot better when dancing with a good lead who knows how to make me look cute and improve my dancing at the same time, but for a while, I was even nervous when dancing with my teacher! ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/13 "2010-06-17T18:53:52Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > If someone is saying you’re leading, and they do not want you to lead, that means you’re offering too much resistance to their cues, and that you want to impose your way of dancing to the partner. Again, usually male partner leads in salsa. > > Dancing, salsa especially… One of the few activities where I do not mind the guy being in charge. Ah. This makes sense. My friend doesn’t really communicate his cues very well. He expects me to be able to read his mind, because apparently, his wife can and _she knows the dance_. So I suppose I’m finding myself leading because it’s not obvious to me where he wants me to go, seeing as how he doesn’t use his words or anything. I get it now. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/14 "2010-06-17T18:57:20Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Ah. This makes sense. > > My friend doesn’t really communicate his cues very well. He expects me to be able to read his mind, because apparently, his wife can and _she knows the dance_. So I suppose I’m finding myself leading because it’s not obvious to me where he wants me to go, seeing as how he doesn’t use his words or anything. I get it now. Well, he won’t use words, but he should be using body language and body cues, like raising your hand and using his hand to tell you which way to spin, tapping your shoulder if he’s going to make you do a free turn, etc etc. If he’s expecting you to read his mind, then _he’s a bad lead_. Its why many salsa teachers insist that you change partners multiple times during a class. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/15 "2010-06-17T19:20:09Z")
BTW, [this](http://www.salsa-merengue.co.uk/VidTutor/salsatwo/son_clave_phrase/core_son_clave_phrase.html) seems to be a pretty good tutorial (with music), at acclimatizing yourself to the son clave phrasing, and how it incorporates into salsa. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/16 "2010-06-17T19:27:27Z")
It also happens if somehow the partners are unable to communicate. It has happened to me a few times with partners who were not, really, bad dancers. We just didn’t “click”. **Angua** , if you have a gradient from good to excellent leads, you’ve been more lucky. Or maybe, we have different expectations. I won’t dance with leads that are worse than me because that puts me in a position of me leading, which I dislike. Or follow a clumsy lead and don’t look as cute, which I don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/17 "2010-06-17T19:32:09Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > Well, he won’t use words, but he should be using body language and body cues, like raising your hand and using his hand to tell you which way to spin, tapping your shoulder if he’s going to make you do a free turn, etc etc. If he’s expecting you to read his mind, then _he’s a bad lead_. Its why many salsa teachers insist that you change partners multiple times during a class. I think I just came to the same conclusion. That, or he’s a bad teacher because he’s also tried to teach me some Kung Fu without using many words (if any at all) and then his feedback is, “You’re imitating, not _doing_.” :smack: Well, buddy, you’ve got to _tell_ me what you’re trying to get me to _do_, 'cause otherwise, I’m left with trying to read your mind and your body language and fill in the blanks (why do I want my foot here?) for myself. This is scary to me, because he’s an economics professor. I hope he uses words when he’s teaching his econ classes. In his defense, this teaching of kung fu and swing only seems to come up late at night in his garage when we’re both hammered and his wife has gone to bed already, so in that state both of our communication skills are suffering. (Yes, I have permission to hang out with my friend’s husband when she’s not around. He’s my friend too. All hands are kept to appropriate places.) ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/18 "2010-06-17T19:37:49Z")
> [@Windwalker](#): > > - It seems that salsa music is often pretty hard to stay on beat to, since the rhythm itself is so syncopated; swing, waltz, cha cha, bachata, etc. all seem much easier to follow. Is this something you just have to get used to (everyone tells me this), or are there any tricks to it? > > - What do you guys out there do when the follow has limp limbs, offering no frame or resistance? I’ve heard mixed things about whether or not you should try to give advice, and I’m curious as to what y’all think. I dance every chance I get, and being Cuban and living in south Florida, that’s pretty much all the time. If you’re having trouble following the beat in salsa music you’re probably just missing the right beat. The way I try to explain it to someone who doesn’t dance a lot it’s: don’t start when you think you should be starting, start a beat later. It seems to work. Limp limbs? I don’t think I’ve run into that, but if I did I’d probably make her do a lot more turns, no way to do that with limp limbs. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/19 "2010-06-17T19:44:50Z")
I find, from my zumba classes, that a lot of latin music seems to be danced on a 3-count rather than a standard 8-count. Rather than starting a beat later, it takes me a few seconds to remember that weird/odd count, and then I can fall right in line where I’m supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512/20 "2010-06-17T20:01:23Z")
Weird. The reason I dislike Zumba is because they follow a different beat I would be accustomed to do at the club. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-salsa-dancing/543512.md?page=2)