# Let's talk about the Dakota Access Pipeline and the Protests **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 24, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907 "2016-11-24T18:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/61 "2016-11-28T02:36:41Z")
Definitely a complicated issue. It is difficult for me to decide which side to support. I would like to see a compromise. Is this pipe line utilizing threaded pipe or is it welded? Is it possible to encase another pipe around the oil pipe? With the space between pressurized? This would add better leak protection. And a leak could be identified and repaired. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/62 "2016-11-28T02:44:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No one yet in this thread has demonstrated that a danger exists, and if it does how much of a danger. Lost of folks have claimed there is a danger, but that’s to the same thing. I’m tired, it’s been a long long weekend. Not an extra long regular weekend, it’s been a long weekend, and it seems extra long too. I mention that because you usually have some kind of point you’re trying to make but I’m not getting it and I’ll just chalk that up to being tired. Maybe tomorrow I’ll figure out that you aren’t trying to say that oil pipelines aren’t a potential danger to ground water. But at the moment that’s what it sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/63 "2016-11-28T02:46:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So it’s never okay to protest a particular oil project? It’s always hypocritical, if one uses modern technology in any way whatsoever? I don’t buy that. If by protest you mean block a project that was properly engineered and vetted then yes, it’s never OK. There was a year long process of public access. THAT is the time to voice your concerns. This was not done. As I’ve already cited, the tribe in question didn’t involve themselves in the process and to this day are not unified in this holy grail of environmental Armageddon. ---
**Author:** ![BrerRobert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BrerRobert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrerRobert)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/64 "2016-11-28T03:06:24Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > The young woman whose arm was mangled by the “grenade” is a family friend ☹ I haven’t seen any evidence at all that her injuries were caused by the police. > [@](#): > > According to a statement from the tribe, Wilansky “sustained severe injuries to her arm when a concussion grenade blew part of her arm away.” Her father also claims she was injured from a concussion grenade tossed directly from a member of law enforcement. > > However, the Morton Country Sheriff’s Department denies this, telling The Associated Press that the injury was caused by a small propane tank “rigged to explode” by demonstrators. > **['I died a thousand deaths,' says dad of Standing Rock protester as doctors...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/standing-rock-serious-injuries-1.3861705)** > > A woman was seriously injured and airlifted to Minneapolis and tens of thousands of dollars have been raised for her medical care after a weekend confrontation between North Dakota authorities and people opposed to the Dakota Access pipeline. Do you have any reason, other than the claims of her father and the tribe, to believe that the police are using any sort of devices capable of causing the type of injuries she has? Contrary to the father’s statements, police do not use concussion grenades, those are military weapons. [Grenade - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenade#Concussion) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/65 "2016-11-28T03:12:26Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m tired, it’s been a long long weekend. Not an extra long regular weekend, it’s been a long weekend, and it seems extra long too. I mention that because you usually have some kind of point you’re trying to make but I’m not getting it and I’ll just chalk that up to being tired. Maybe tomorrow I’ll figure out that you aren’t trying to say that oil pipelines aren’t a potential danger to ground water. But at the moment that’s what it sounds like. The OP opened this thread to solicit information about the issues surrounding this pipeline and protests going on. I thought that was an excellent idea since so little information seem to be available. As I noted earlier, I read every article in both Sunday papers I read today (Merc News and NYT), but not much there, either. You, and others, have made some pretty bold claims in this thread. Don’t you think you should be able to back them up? That is all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/66 "2016-11-28T03:42:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If by protest you mean block a project that was properly engineered and vetted then yes, it’s never OK. There was a year long process of public access. THAT is the time to voice your concerns. This was not done. > > As I’ve already cited, the tribe in question didn’t involve themselves in the process and to this day are not unified in this holy grail of environmental Armageddon. Whether true or not, this has nothing to do with my point, which was in response to an accusation that the use of gas vehicles means the protest is hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/67 "2016-11-28T04:25:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So it’s never okay to protest a particular oil project? It’s always hypocritical, if one uses modern technology in any way whatsoever? I don’t buy that. Well don’t expect to convince many, for example, if you are protesting electricity generation while using the internet. Sure you can protest but only a fringe will take you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/68 "2016-11-28T04:28:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well don’t expect to convince many, for example, if you are protesting electricity generation while using the internet. Sure you can protest but only a fringe will take you seriously. They aren’t protesting oil production or pipelines in general, just the location of that particular one. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/69 "2016-11-28T04:36:21Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/70 "2016-11-28T04:46:41Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Crony capitalist Warren Buffet will get even wealthier. > > If the oil doesn’t come by way of pipeline, it will be shipped by train and Buffet owns those trains. There have been a number of train derailments that have not received much publicity because it would hurt Buffet’s business. He’s a good liberal, don’t you know. > > See if he was really a great investor, all we would have to do is mimic what he does and we’d all be rich. The secret of his success is leverage and bending the rules. The war on coal was also designed to have the coal shipped to China by trains making him even wealthier. It also seems to me a pipeline is better than a train for carbon emissions. Uh … Wrong! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrerRobert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BrerRobert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrerRobert)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/71 "2016-11-28T04:48:49Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > They aren’t protesting oil production or pipelines in general, just the location of that particular one. Except no credible reasons have been given as to why that particular pipeline should not be built in that particular place, just vague notions that it is potentially risky. Every bit of industrial infrastructure in existence carries some risk and is on land that was at some point in history taken by force. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/72 "2016-11-28T04:51:31Z")
> [@BrerRobert](#): > > Except no credible reasons have been given as to why that particular pipeline should not be built in that particular place, just vague notions that it is potentially risky. Every bit of industrial infrastructure in existence carries some risk and is on land that was at some point in history taken by force. Sure. And I’m not qualified to say one way or the other. My post was strictly about how they are not being hypocritical by using petroleum and protesting this particular pipeline. They may well be incorrect about the actual danger of the pipeline but they are not being hypocritical by protesting it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/73 "2016-11-28T04:59:51Z")
Sure, if this is just an isolated incident. But increasingly, there are protests aimed at pipelines generally. That does raise the issue: what alternative do the opponents of pipelines propose? Again, I don’t think it’s helpful to frame the issue in term of hypocrisy, but as a matter of transport and energy policy, what alternative is ring set out, other than “pipelines are bad.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/74 "2016-11-28T05:02:26Z")
I’m also curious why the band did not participate in the review process? That does seriously undercut the rationale for the protests. If they had an opportunity to raise their concerns, before a body which had the power to order changes to the pipeline’s path, why the heck didn’t they do so? Have they explained why they didn’t do so? If they had an opportunity to make submissions and didn’t do so, I’m afraid that undercuts **Bricker’s** summary of events. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/75 "2016-11-28T05:05:40Z")
Does anybody _want_ one of these “in their back yard”? Anyone petition the Gov to send its blessings their way? Could it be that part of their ire is their impression that they are, politically, the weakest demographic there is, period? And that political weakness forms a major part in explaining how this gift was bestowed upon them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/76 "2016-11-28T05:07:40Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Sure, if this is just an isolated incident. But increasingly, there are protests aimed at pipelines generally. That does raise the issue: what alternative do the opponents of pipelines propose? Again, I don’t think it’s helpful to frame the issue in term of hypocrisy, but as a matter of transport and energy policy, what alternative is ring set out, other than “pipelines are bad.” It’s the same mentality that thinks the drug war can be fought by attacking the supply side. America is addicted to fossil fuels. Trying to prevent fossil fuels from reaching Americans isn’t likely to do much good. But modern day protesters seem less interested in making real change than they do feeling like they are on the right side. The Native American tribes are not in that category of course, but those coming to support them just want to fight the good fight and have very little invested in whether it works or not. And I seriously doubt it’s the Native Americans provoking the law enforcement response. Those are the professional protesters. ---
**Author:** ![BrerRobert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BrerRobert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrerRobert)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/77 "2016-11-28T05:10:30Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Sure, if this is just an isolated incident. But increasingly, there are protests aimed at pipelines generally. That does raise the issue: what alternative do the opponents of pipelines propose? Again, I don’t think it’s helpful to frame the issue in term of hypocrisy, but as a matter of transport and energy policy, what alternative is ring set out, other than “pipelines are bad.” From my experience interacting with the self appointed guardians of the planet types that staff these sorts of protests, the alternatives that they propose generally consist of one or more forms of perpetual motion machine that “the corporations” are keeping off the market. In their minds all of this is due to “money in politics” and is why Citizens United must be overturned. And I am not even kidding, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/78 "2016-11-28T05:12:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …Those are the professional protesters. You actually said that!?! With a straight face, you typed it and hit “Enter”? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/79 "2016-11-28T05:13:46Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > If they had an opportunity to make submissions and didn’t do so, I’m afraid that undercuts **Bricker’s** summary of events. There are lots of things that undercut that summary. It’s entertaining, but not particularly informative. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907/80 "2016-11-28T05:14:09Z")
> [@BrerRobert](#): > > From my experience interacting with the self appointed guardians of the planet types that staff these sorts of protests,… Spend a lot of time at environmental protests, do you? Pack a lunch, take the family, make an outing of it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-dakota-access-pipeline-and-the-protests/772907.md?page=5)