# Let's talk about this Gay Universe, shall we? From Starfleet's secret files... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 20, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979 "2002-06-20T00:45:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/1 "2002-06-20T00:45:58Z")
[sub](Inspired by the title, but not the content, of a certain Pit thread)[/sub] Alright, a lot of people have raised the question, where are all the gay people in the Star Trek universe? Some years ago, I stumbled onto the secret Starfleet didn’t want you to know – and I was ordered not to reveal it under penalty of receiving a lecture by a naked William Shatner on the more profound intellectual content in _Tekwar_. As my lawyer informs me that “cruel and unusual punishment” would violate the the Khitimer Accord, I feel relatively safe in revealing this ugly aspect of Starfleet history to all of you. Back in the 23rd century, the Neo-Sexist movement (which forced women out of command positions and into miniskirts) hatched a vile plot to eliminate all the gays, lesbians, and bisexuals who had been fully accepted by society. Neo-Sexist genetic engineer Lance Heston concocted an engineered virus that sought out and destroyed the gay gene. Within a generation, Earth had lost not only its gay population, but its ability to colour-coordinate as well. This happened with the full complicity of Starfleet Command, and many top admirals (including Admiral Helms, who instituted the Secondary Directive, that Starfleet Captains must bed one alien woman per week and has since come to be known as “The Kirk Rule”), though the plot was kept secret from the public at large. Soon, the virus spread to many Federation worlds. No one shed a tear when Vulcan’s Platonix Club closed (although patrons mostly went to the club to discuss “the joys of not giving into their emotions” over fruit punch), though the small but devoted clientele of Scrawg’s Discipline Pit and Bloodpie Emporium on Qo’noS, the klingon homeworld, were very upset. When the enormous all-male and all-female colonies on Risa vanished, several as-yet-unaffected worlds lodged a formal human rights complaint, and demanded an investigation. Starfleet Command occasionally discusses the ethical implications of trying to cure the anti-gay-gene virus, which is now present in every species Starfleet has ever come in contact with. Only the Borg remain unaffected, due to their nanoprobe technologies, though Borg Clubs (even the famous Delta-Quadrant 42, subsector-212, Junction-6) are notoriously dull, and everyone is dressed in Tommy Hilfiger. The Star Wars universe does not have this problem, although many would be surprised to learn that Naboo has strict sodomy laws, and gay men caught there are shipped off to labour camps on Versace VII to design and produce outfits for that planet’s queen on a round-the-clock basis. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/2 "2002-06-20T01:09:58Z")
You may as well ask where all the bathrooms are. I suggest you get a hobby. ---
**Author:** ![Taran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Taran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taran)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/3 "2002-06-20T01:20:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*You may as well ask where all the bathrooms are. > > I suggest you get a hobby. \*\* Looks as if he (she?) has one. An amusing one, too, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/4 "2002-06-20T01:42:17Z")
Bryan: Actually, if he were really being geeky, this thread would have been about anime. I’m the Trekkie in this household. I suppose we could speculate that the virus has started to die off, but there being no gay community to educate the nascent space homosexuals, the most they know how to do is exchange scorching glances and innuendo with each other (_cf._ Paris/Kim, Bashir/O’Brien…) And apparently, the only other species left unaffected was Q. He wears purple lipstick, for chrissakes. And he obviously has a “daddy” thing for Picard. (Can you just picture the good captain in leather? _Mon dieu seigneur._) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/5 "2002-06-20T02:13:31Z")
By golly, I guess there never has been an openly gay character on Star Trek. [This page](http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/trek.html) discusses the issue. But then again, how do we know that the Horta (that silicon-based life form that laid rock-like eggs) wasn’t gay? ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/6 "2002-06-20T03:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*You may as well ask where all the bathrooms are. > > I suggest you get a hobby. \*\* Yikes. Retract the claws. If it had been a serious rant, I would’ve have put it in the Pit. I do find it mildly annoying that a show that prides itself on being utopian and politically correct does its damndest to avoid including gay people. But I’m not so big a fan I’m going to rant about it. Actually, the guy I’m seeing is a big-time trekker, and it sort of came out of a discussion we had about Star Trek earlier today. After coming up with the Klingon fetish-bar, I decided I Really Must Share this, even though it was Mundane and Pointless. So I shared it. I got **matt\_mcl** to help with the spellings and details. And I really wanted to include Gay Universe in a thread title, ever since seeing that phrase in the Pit 😛 If you want to see me in serious gay-geek mode, as **matt\_mcl** pointed out, try bringing up animé 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/7 "2002-06-20T03:47:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*By golly, I guess there never has been an openly gay character on Star Trek. [This page](http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/trek.html) discusses the issue. > But then again, how do we know that the Horta (that silicon-based life form that laid rock-like eggs) wasn’t gay? \*\* Thanks for the link. I’d heard a couple of things there, including Roddenbury’s interest in adding gay characters, but most of it was pretty new. But I must take issue with the idea that the Horta is a poster-girl for single lesbian mothers. She didn’t once bring up the Indigo Girls or Melissa Etheridge in her conversation with Spock 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tansu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@Tansu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tansu)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/8 "2002-06-20T10:26:12Z")
I seem to remember some episodes of TNG and DS9 where there were races which _looked_ gay, but weren’t. They had different sexes, but they all looked like either humanoid men or humanoid women. Incredibly wussy cop out, eh? Ahh, it _looks_ like two women kissing, but really, they are of different sexes! or Ahhh, it _looks_ like two women kissing, but they have no different sexes in thei species, so it’s not like they’re actually _lesbian_. It looks a bit like they have to rationalise any apparent homosexuality away. Of course, yes, yes, you could have a species of very similar looking hermaphrodites, you could have a species of humanoids where male and female look very very similar. But, wouldn’t it be nice and easy to have two people who look gay (in the sense of they look like two women or two men, and are seen to snog each other With Tongues), and actually _are_ gay. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/9 "2002-06-20T10:47:01Z")
> [@](#): > > The Star Wars universe does not have this problem, although many would be surprised to learn that Naboo has strict sodomy laws, and gay men caught there are shipped off to labour camps on Versace VII to design and produce outfits for that planet’s queen on a round-the-clock basis. Yeah, but if you drop the soap on Tatooine… LOOK OUT!!! ---
**Author:** ![majinborg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/db5fbb/32.png) [@majinborg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/majinborg)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/10 "2002-06-20T15:30:33Z")
In defense of Star Trek, one could argue that the perfect society portrayed therein _is_ perfect because its members are so completely comfortable with homo-/bisexuals as normal people that they don’t make an issue nor a show of it, nor make any special attempt to acknowledge it. [sub]Four thousand quatloos says this thread gets moved to the Pit.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/11 "2002-06-20T15:59:57Z")
Does no one remember the DS9 episode where the widow of one of Dax’s previous hosts visits the station? /drool Aside from the “new hosts shouldn’t mess around with the personal acquaintences of the old host” rule for the Trill I didn’t see anyone having problems with their relationship. I know I certainly didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/12 "2002-06-20T16:33:25Z")
Yet another reason why Babylon 5 kicks Star Trek’s ass all over the place. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/13 "2002-06-20T17:24:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by slortar \* > \*\*Yet another reason why Babylon 5 kicks Star Trek’s ass all over the place. 🙂 \*\* I heard about that, although I’ve only watched (most of) the first season. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/14 "2002-06-20T19:36:52Z")
It takes a while, but there is, in fact, evidence that gays exist in the future. In season 3 (I believe) two of the male characters pose as a travelling married couple. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/15 "2002-06-20T19:39:52Z")
Oh, and you really need to stick with the series. The last 4 seasons make suffering through season 1 worthwhile. If you make it to season 2 and 3, you’ll never look at any other televised science fiction the same way again. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/16 "2002-06-20T22:41:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by majinborg \* > \*\*In defense of Star Trek, one could argue that the perfect society portrayed therein _is_ perfect because its members are so completely comfortable with homo-/bisexuals as normal people … that they are totally invisible, never kiss, never have affairs with aliens like everyone else, never hold hands, never appear, and never serve aboard Federation starships. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2002, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/17 "2002-06-20T23:02:47Z")
> [@](#): > > that they are totally invisible, never kiss, never have affairs with aliens like everyone else, never hold hands, never appear, and never serve aboard Federation starships. You mean… **Star Trek** is modeled on the 1950’s!??!? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2002, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/18 "2002-06-21T01:07:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tansu \* > \*\*I seem to remember some episodes of TNG and DS9 where there were races which _looked_ gay, but weren’t. They had different sexes, but they all looked like either humanoid men or humanoid women. > > \*\* This reminds me of a s/f short story I’ve read that was done in the inverse manner - two aliens that look like they are different sexes, but are really the same sex. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/19 "2002-06-21T01:38:49Z")
I’m as Trek-geeky as they get; it was the overly complicated future history that jerked my knee. The closest _Star Trek_ ever came to incorporating a homosexual story element was athe fifth-season _TNG_ episode “The Outcast” but even then, the subject was couched in such overly-complicated sci-fi nonsense that the social commentary was lost. _TNG_ suffered from a schizophrenic plan for getting an audience. Whie some episodes touched on heavy-duty social issues like abortion and genetic engineering, others hinged on kiddie issues like Wesley’s science projects, Worf’s son Alexander, Data trying to be human, etc. As long as they wanted a 7:00p.m. timeslot (as it played in my city), they couldn’t do anything that would offend large segments of the population and prompt them to keep their kids from watching. _DS9_ and _Voyager_ never showed any real backbone on this subject, either, though _DS9_ came close with a two-woman kiss in the fourth-season _Rejoined_. _Babylon V_ could be a bit more “adult” and have a lesbian subplot, though not a demonstrative one. ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2002, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979/20 "2002-06-21T02:55:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\* > > that they are totally invisible, never kiss, never have affairs with aliens like everyone else, never hold hands, never appear, and never serve aboard Federation starships. \*\* …that they have the kind of good taste and common decorum that the breeders on the show lack. Frankly I don’t care if it’s a hetero or homosexual relationship. PDA’s are disgusting. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-this-gay-universe-shall-we-from-starfleets-secret-files/114979.md?page=2)