# Let's talk hats
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 19, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393 "2005-09-19T18:11:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/1 "2005-09-19T18:11:29Z")
What is the difference between a fedora and a homburg?
On the TV program, “The Beverly Hillbillies,” what kind of hat did Mr. Drysdale wear, fedora or homburg. (In a few eps, he wore a porkpie, but those were exceptions.)
Does the kind of hat that Uncle Jed wore whenever he was dressed up have a name? I couldn’t find a picture of it, but it looked like a bowler, except that it had a flat top, instead of a domed top. Also, the top of the crown had a rounded edge, instead of a stove-pipe-like right angle.
Did the name of the little hat that Granny wore have a name? I did find [a picture](http://www.tvacres.com/images/granny_clampett.jpg) of that?
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### Author:  [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/2 "2005-09-19T18:36:31Z")
A homburg does not have a snap brim (the brim is not snapped down in the front). It does have a slight crease in the top. A bowler does not (think of a bowler as a homburg with a dome top).
A fedora has a wider brim that is snapped down in front. It can have a single crease in the crown, or a pinch at the front of the crown.
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### Author:  [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/3 "2005-09-19T19:57:12Z")
Here’s a fedora [http://delmonicohatter.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/merchant.mvc?Session\_ID=a6a9a4b72f6f5b5e68d92ad765d46952&Screen=PROD&Product\_Code=IT10&Category\_Code=FED](http://delmonicohatter.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=a6a9a4b72f6f5b5e68d92ad765d46952&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=IT10&Category_Code=FED)
And a HOMBURG [http://delmonicohatter.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product\_Code=IT62&Category\_Code=](http://delmonicohatter.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=IT62&Category_Code=)
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### Author:  [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/4 "2005-09-19T20:31:28Z")
Is there a special name for the fedora with the really narrow brim? I see those more and more nowadays, even at places like Hot Topic, and I have to admit, that’s the kind of hat I want. Kind of a jazz musician/rude boy/mod/hipster hat to wear, and seems a bit less formal than your typical 1940s gangster/detective fedora.
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### Author:  [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/5 "2005-09-19T20:39:00Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#):
>
> Is there a special name for the fedora with the really narrow brim? I see those more and more nowadays, even at places like Hot Topic, and I have to admit, that’s the kind of hat I want. Kind of a jazz musician/rude boy/mod/hipster hat to wear, and seems a bit less formal than your typical 1940s gangster/detective fedora.
A [Pork Pie](http://delmonicohatter.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=IT65&Category_Code=), perhaps?
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### Author:  [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/6 "2005-09-19T23:34:40Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#):
>
> Is there a special name for the fedora with the really narrow brim? I see those more and more nowadays, even at places like Hot Topic, and I have to admit, that’s the kind of hat I want. Kind of a jazz musician/rude boy/mod/hipster hat to wear, and seems a bit less formal than your typical 1940s gangster/detective fedora.
I sometimes see these called porkpies, but that usually refers to the flat topped type, as shown in **labdad** ’s link (and which is what I’ve got for any times I need a hat). Perhaps something along the lines of a [trillby](http://delmonicohatter.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=IT222&Category_Code=CH) might be closer to what you’re looking for.
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### Author:  [@Vintage\_1957](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vintage_1957)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/7 "2005-09-19T23:53:45Z")
Maybe this is a good time to ask my hat question. Why did the tricorner hat go, & pretty much stay, out of style?
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### Author:  [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/8 "2005-09-20T00:29:25Z")
> [@Vintage 1957](#):
>
> Maybe this is a good time to ask my hat question. Why did the tricorner hat go, & pretty much stay, out of style?
Possibly because the reason it came into style went out some time before the tricorner hat did? Some sources claim that various forms of cocked hats came into fashion when huge ornate wigs did - fashionable gentlemen wore hats with the brim turned up to show off their fancy powdered wigs. Eventually, hat makers just started making the hats that way.
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### Author:  [@Vintage\_1957](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vintage_1957)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/9 "2005-09-20T01:24:02Z")
> [@yabob](#):
>
> Possibly because the reason it came into style went out some time before the tricorner hat did? Some sources claim that various forms of cocked hats came into fashion when huge ornate wigs did - fashionable gentlemen wore hats with the brim turned up to show off their fancy powdered wigs. Eventually, hat makers just started making the hats that way.
Well, if you’re going to resort to \*\*_logic_ \*\*… 🙂
I guess I’m thinking along the lines of things that came & stayed, or came & went & came back again, simply because people thought they looked good. Cowboy hats never left, granny glasses had a 60s revival, top hats hung on for formal affairs. Whatever the logic behind the creation of these items, it probably no longer applies to the people who use them. Tricorners couldn’t even catch on again during the '60s in spite of Paul Revere & The Raiders **and** a Beatles video. I guess they would tend to collect rain water though… 🙂
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### Author:  [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/10 "2005-09-20T01:47:33Z")
Ok, while we’re on the topic of TV hats, what exactly is that thing Goober Pyle wears on his head, and has anyone else in the history of the planet ever worn one?
[sub]And if so, why?[/sub]
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### Author:  [@Vintage\_1957](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vintage_1957)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/11 "2005-09-20T03:53:28Z")
> [@drewbert](#):
>
> Ok, while we’re on the topic of TV hats, what exactly is that thing Goober Pyle wears on his head, and has anyone else in the history of the planet ever worn one?
>
> [sub]And if so, why?[/sub]
Well, Jughead wore one before Goober & a couple of the Little Rascals had 'em before Jughead. Come to think of it, I seem to remember Huntz Hall wearing something similar in one of the East End/Dead End/Bowery Boys movies.
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### Author:  [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/12 "2005-09-20T05:00:53Z")
Jughead and Goober wore a form of beanie, which was actually sometimes worn by children in the early part of the 20th century:
> [@](#):
>
> A beanie is also the name for a skullcap (a tight-fitting, brimless hat) worn by schoolchildren in the early to mid-20th century. The “crown” that Jughead Jones wears in Archie Comics is a form of beanie, as is a cap often worn by Spanky of Our Gang (The Little Rascals). These were also known as “whoopee caps” and “dinks.” Since then, the name “beanie” has come almost exclusively to mean a child’s hat that has a plastic propeller sticking out of the crown.
>
> Originally, the beanie was a blue-collar working hat, worn by laborers like welders or mechanics who needed to keep their hair back but for whom a brim would be an unnecessary obstruction. Some hat historians believe schoolchildren began wearing skullcaps in imitation of their working-class fathers. The baseball cap evolved from this kind of beanie, with the addition of a brim to block the sun.
From [http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Beanie](http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Beanie)
More (it will ask you for a password, and not let you see the images, but if you cancel several times you can read the text):
[http://histclo.hispeed.com/style/head/cap/cap-bean.html](http://histclo.hispeed.com/style/head/cap/cap-bean.html)
Goober’s beanie is rather dilapidated. I think we are supposed to infer he’s been wearing the damned thing since he was a child.
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### Author:  [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/13 "2005-09-20T13:16:49Z")
> [@waterj2](#):
>
> I sometimes see these called porkpies, but that usually refers to the flat topped type, as shown in **labdad** ’s link (and which is what I’ve got for any times I need a hat). Perhaps something along the lines of a [trillby](http://delmonicohatter.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=IT222&Category_Code=CH) might be closer to what you’re looking for.
That’s pretty much it, a trillby! Thank you. I bought a similar hat at Target – brown plaid for $13 – but it’s a bit tight, and not exactly the style I wanted. And I know pork pies have the flat top. I just wish the weather was cooler where I live, since now that I shave my head, I wouldn’t mind wearing a few sharp hats like this.
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### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/14 "2005-09-20T14:26:27Z")
OK, so Mr. Drysdale apparently wore a homburg most of the time. Also, it looks as though I was wrong about his alternate hat. It looks to have been a trillby instead of a porkpie.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/15 "2005-09-20T14:51:32Z")
[http://www.mybabyjo.com/hats01.htm](http://www.mybabyjo.com/hats01.htm) has a selection of hats. I bought the Coconut Porkpie, which I wear all the time. I also bought a Black Porkpie (no photo, though they do show a grey one and a brown one), but I haven’t had the opportunity to wear it yet. The Stingy Brim Fedoras look half-hipster and half-1940s-newsman.
**yabob** : There’s a black beanie on page 2 of the link. Is that the thing?
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/16 "2005-09-20T16:11:18Z")
The Bowler (called a Derby in the US) in either round or flat top crown was worn as a badge of middle-class status (working classes wore billed caps and upper classes wore top hats). Charlie Chaplin and Laurel & Hardy wore them in their costumes to mock the middle class. The Bowler-wearer’s lack of individuality was immortalized in the painting of Rene Magritte:
[http://www.gustavus.edu/oncampus/academics/art/magritte.html](http://www.gustavus.edu/oncampus/academics/art/magritte.html)
(snarky aside: from Magritte’s paintings we assume Brussels was filled with souless bean-counters, but we now know that they were actually counting lopped-off Congolese hands)
The high-crown, flat-topped version of the bowler was, for some reason, preferred over the round-topped among the managerial classes of Great Britain, particulary in Manchester. Seeking to appear more capable than the average office worker, but not as one of the top-hat wearing aristocrats who had led the nation into the slaughter of World War One (although that’s exactly what he was), Winston Churchill adopted the flat-top bowler for his comeback:
[http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2004\_1145.JPG](http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2004_1145.JPG)
As for Goober’s beanie: for years kids had been cutting the brims off felt hats and clipping the upturned edges into mock “crowns,” but this practice really took off in World War One, when millions of Americans were issued campaign (“Smokey the Bear”) hats. These big hats didn’t stow handily in backpacks, so they were replaced with overseas “piss-cutter” caps. Thousands of discarded campagin hats became available for modification. Quite the waste, considering that these hats, like all good felt, had been made from fur, not wool.
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### Author:  [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/17 "2005-09-20T18:47:22Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#):
>
> [http://www.mybabyjo.com/hats01.htm](http://www.mybabyjo.com/hats01.htm) has a selection of hats. I bought the Coconut Porkpie, which I wear all the time. I also bought a Black Porkpie (no photo, though they do show a grey one and a brown one), but I haven’t had the opportunity to wear it yet. The Stingy Brim Fedoras look half-hipster and half-1940s-newsman.
>
> **yabob** : There’s a black beanie on page 2 of the link. Is that the thing?
One form of it - that one isn’t cut with the “crown” decoration ala Goober and Jughead, but “beanie” is a very general term. Probably close to what the working class fathers were wearing to keep their hair out of the way, before the kids got ahold of them.
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### Author:  [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/18 "2005-09-20T19:20:16Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#):
>
> I bought a similar hat at Target – brown plaid for $13 – but it’s a bit tight, and not exactly the style I wanted.
Get yosef a hatstretcher! Seriously, every hat owner needs ohe.
[http://www.davidmorgan.com/proddetail.html?product\_number=1181](http://www.davidmorgan.com/proddetail.html?product_number=1181)
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### Author:  [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2005, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/19 "2005-09-22T07:34:36Z")
> [@drewbert](#):
>
> Ok, while we’re on the topic of TV hats, what exactly is that thing Goober Pyle wears on his head. . .
Here is [an old newspaper ad](http://www.lileks.com/oldads/30s/4.html) featuring a whoopee cap.
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### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-hats/322393/20 "2006-03-12T22:26:18Z")
On the subject of whoopee caps, a number of the extras in the “Our Gang” shorts wore them, especially in the last several years of the series.
And in “The Best Years of Our Lives” (1946), one of the kids that Harold Russell fusses at as he puts his hands thru the windo is wearing a whoopee cap.
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