# Let's talk seriously about Bristol Palin. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993 "2008-09-04T15:03:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/61 "2008-09-04T20:05:45Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Are you suggesting that a single case invalidates a policy? [QUOTE=General “Buck” Turgidson] Well, I, uh, don’t think it’s quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir. [/QUOTE] 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/62 "2008-09-04T20:14:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 1. The pregnant daughter story was released from the Palins themselves. The media didn’t break it, Sarah Palin did. My understanding is that the info was released because left-wing blogs were spreading rumors that Sarah Palin was not the mother of her youngest child. > [@Syntropy](#): > > Not one case, no. But I thought [this study](http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/67979.php) was old news. That study appears to say that abstinence is no better but no worse. If liberals are annoyed at Palin because of her abstinence stand it appears to be misplaced. If all publicity is good publicity McCain has pulled a coup because Probama people can’t stop talking about Palin. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/63 "2008-09-04T20:15:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 1. The pregnant daughter story was released from the Palins themselves. The media didn’t break it, Sarah Palin did. True, although this was done in response to rumors that Bristol is actually Trig Palin’s mother. Which would have stirred much the same discussion that we’re now having. > [@Sampiro](#): > > One week ago today (Thursday, August 28) very few people in the contiguous 48 knew who Sarah Palin was beyond, perhaps, “attractive governor of Alaska”. The next day she’s the most talked about woman in the country. ANYTHING that fleshes her out is going to lead. This bears repeating, because it’s absolutely true. The pregnancy would be a story regardless, but it takes on more significance because, two months before she maybe gets elected Vice President, people are trying to figure out who Sarah Palin is. They’re starting to see her resume and how the Republicans are presenting her, but that’s not necessarily going to be the same as the public’s impression. > [@](#): > > Plus there’s some oddity there (she’s out of school five months for mono? Which her boyfriend who was having sex with her during that time somehow didn’t contract? This is not impossible. I had mono two years ago and my girlfriend never got it. And one of my coworkers somehow did, which was awkward, although there’s no way to know for sure if she got it from me. Oh- and yes, I have not seen anybody in the press attacking Bristol Palin. Covering an issue is not the same as attacking its subject. So far, any criticism of either Palin is being met with charges of “the media is being unfair and trying to destroy us/them.” The GOP seemed to loathe this tactic when Hillary Clinton did it, so we’ll see if anybody else thinks their response is sincere. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/64 "2008-09-04T20:24:04Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > That study appears to say that abstinence is no better but no worse. If liberals are annoyed at Palin because of her abstinence stand it appears to be misplaced. The study is saying the rate of teenage sexual activity among students who were enrolled in abstinence only programs are no better or worse than students who received no education regarding intercourse at all. It wasn’t tested against students who received decent sex education, because that isn’t allowed in schools. I don’t think it’s misplaced annoyance to say that this isn’t working and maybe we should try something else. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/65 "2008-09-04T20:35:30Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > The study is saying the rate of teenage sexual activity among students who were enrolled in abstinence only programs are no better or worse than students who received no education regarding intercourse at all. **It wasn’t tested against students who received decent sex education, because that isn’t allowed in schools.** I don’t think it’s misplaced annoyance to say that this isn’t working and maybe we should try something else. I’m going to have to ask for a cite for that one. Especially since I have cites that directly contradict it. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/66 "2008-09-04T20:49:59Z")
The difference in rates of sexual acivity is immaterial. Nothing reduces _that_. That’s the point. What matters is what makes a difference in the rates of teenage pregnancy. That’s where Abstinence Only is an abject failure. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/67 "2008-09-04T20:55:22Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I’m going to have to ask for a cite for that one. Especially since I have cites that directly contradict it. > > Cite? It’s right there in the article. “The report, which was commissioned by Congress, followed 2,057 U.S. teenagers in late elementary and middle school who participated in four abstinence programs, as well as students in the same grades who did not participate in such programs.” It wasn’t tested against students who received detailed sex education. The students they were compared against were in no programs whatsoever. Or are you disputing the idea that decent sex education isn’t taught in public schools? In which case, I guess I’d have to ask what constitutes decent in your opinion, and point out that that’s a subjective measurement. As a parent, my idea of “decent sex ed” may be different from yours. It’s certainly different from the PTA and women’s league. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/68 "2008-09-04T20:58:03Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I’m going to have to ask for a cite for that one. Especially since I have cites that directly contradict it. > > Cite? Don’t bother asking for a cite because this claim is false. Abstinence education could not have been measured against sex education because the experiement was carried out in a variety of school districts. The existing education programs varied enormously from place to place: > [@](#): > > Both rural school districts—the Powhatan school district and the districts in > Mississippi—offered only a modest degree of health, family-life, and sex education > (Table II.2, lower panel)… > > Compared to the rural districts, both urban school districts offered a fairly significant > set of health, family-life, and sex education services. Using the native school district’s existing program would have been an invalid control group. All of the Title V abstinence programs were delivered identically to each of the school districts in the experiment. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/69 "2008-09-04T21:13:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The difference in rates of sexual acivity is immaterial. Nothing reduces _that_. That’s the point. What matters is what makes a difference in the rates of teenage pregnancy. That’s where Abstinence Only is an abject failure. And so are most sex-ed programs of all sorts. See my post #21. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/70 "2008-09-04T21:17:47Z")
Sooo… after talking seriously we’ve decided that there’s no basis to the claim that those _eeeeeevil_ liberals are picking on Bristol, then? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/71 "2008-09-04T21:19:16Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > And so are most sex-ed programs of all sorts. See my post #21. My cite beats your cite. > **[The Seattle Times | Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment,...](https://www.seattletimes.com)** > > Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment, travel, restaurants and opinion for Seattle and the Pacific Northwest. > [@](#): > > Students who receive comprehensive sex education are half as likely to become teen parents as those who get none or abstinence-only sex education, according to researchers at the University of Washington. > **[Comprehensive Sex Education Might Reduce Teen Pregnancies, Study Suggests](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080319151225.htm)** > > New research suggests that comprehensive sex education might lead to less teen pregnancy, and there are no indications that it boosts the levels of sexual intercourse or sexually transmitted diseases. "It is not harmful to teach teens about birth... > [@](#): > > Kohler and colleagues examined the results of the 2002 national survey and focused on heterosexual teens ages 15 to 19. The findings — based on responses from 1,719 teens — appear in the Journal of Adolescent Health. > > After reviewing the results, which researchers weighted to reflect the U.S. population better, the researchers found that one in four teens received abstinence-only education. Nine percent — particularly the poor and those in rural areas — received no sex education at all. The other two-thirds received comprehensive instruction with discussion of birth control. > > Teens who received comprehensive sex education were 60 percent less likely to report becoming pregnant or impregnating someone than those who received no sex education. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/72 "2008-09-04T21:21:43Z")
To get back on topic-When _are_ the Republicans going to leave poor Bristol alone? Nobody is buying the excuse that the info had to be revealed because lefty blogs were going to release to info. If such blogs existed, they would have been exposed by now. I find it despicable that her own mother and certain Republicans at the convention would use her to divert attention from her own scandals, and this shotgun wedding they are arranging is in poor taste, imho. I hope that the right-wingers will do the right thing and drop it, but in these times of “The ends justify the means”, it’s probably a futile hope. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/73 "2008-09-04T21:50:20Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > My understanding is that the info was released because left-wing blogs were spreading rumors that Sarah Palin was not the mother of her youngest child. I love this. They showed that Bristol was not Trig’s mother by showing she was pregnant with another baby. Brilliant. Not that they could have hid that belly for the next four months. > [@](#): > > That study appears to say that abstinence is no better but no worse. If liberals are annoyed at Palin because of her abstinence stand it appears to be misplaced. I think that most people, left or right, would agree that sex education is best done in the home, and is only necessary in schools because parents don’t do a good job of it. So, forget about abstinence education in the schools and focus on abstinence education in the home. I think it pretty likely that Sarah never gave Bristol the go ahead to mess around. But I think she also thought that providing birth control would give the go-ahead. That’s the objection to sex education, right - teaching about contraception is supposed to give permission to have sex? But oddly enough kids do it anyway, and we see the result. We put our daughters on birth control before it was necessary. Neither of them got pregnant, and they youngest is a lot older than Bristol. Palin’s approach to this was just like Rummy’s approach to Iraq or Brownie in New Orleans. Assume that everything will be fine, and have no contingency plan. We don’t four more years of that kind of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/74 "2008-09-04T21:55:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So it’s her mother’s fault that the US media behaves like assholes? Wouldn’t that make it Bill Clinton’s fault if anyone tells a nasty joke about Chelsea? Or if someone goes after the Obama children, that is Obama’s fault? After all, he chose to run for President. > > Regards, > Shodan You think there wouldn’t be a firestorm if Chelsea had gotten knocked up? Notice that no one is discussing her other kids - they didn’t get pregnant. Looks like Hillary is a better sex ed teacher than Sarah. I’m not surprised. If the media are being assholes - not clear - they’re just following the lead of the right wing media from 8 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/75 "2008-09-04T22:01:39Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > And so are most sex-ed programs of all sorts. See my post #21. **Maeglin’s** cite beats your cite. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/76 "2008-09-04T22:14:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I love this. They showed that Bristol was not Trig’s mother by showing she was pregnant with another baby. Brilliant. Not that they could have hid that belly for the next four months. How would you expect Palin to discuss it? Certain elements were making a big deal about Palin supposedly being a liar. (How many threads were started on the SDMB alone?) Since it would eventually become obvious that Bristol is pregnant it made sense to divulge it. Let me ask you this: if left-wing blogs hadn’t made a big deal about the maternity of Trig do you think it would be public knowledge right now that Bristol is pregnant? Probably not (and then the haters would likely have screamed that the Palin family was “hiding” the pregnancy.) > [@Voyager](#): > > I think that most people, left or right, would agree that sex education is best done in the home, and is only necessary in schools because parents don’t do a good job of it. So, forget about abstinence education in the schools and focus on abstinence education in the home. > I think it pretty likely that Sarah never gave Bristol the go ahead to mess around. But I think she also thought that providing birth control would give the go-ahead. That’s the objection to sex education, right - teaching about contraception is supposed to give permission to have sex? But oddly enough kids do it anyway, and we see the result. > > We put our daughters on birth control before it was necessary. Neither of them got pregnant, and they youngest is a lot older than Bristol. > > Palin’s approach to this was just like Rummy’s approach to Iraq or Brownie in New Orleans. Assume that everything will be fine, and have no contingency plan. We don’t four more years of that kind of shit. I know a ton of families that taught abstinence and their daughters didn’t get pregnant. One instance of pregnancy does not support a conclusion one way or another. The left-wing pundits aren’t bashing Bristol but they sure are using her situation to full advantage. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/77 "2008-09-04T22:39:51Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > How would you expect Palin to discuss it? Certain elements were making a big deal about Palin supposedly being a liar. (How many threads were started on the SDMB alone?) Since it would eventually become obvious that Bristol is pregnant it made sense to divulge it. Let me ask you this: if left-wing blogs hadn’t made a big deal about the maternity of Trig do you think it would be public knowledge right now that Bristol is pregnant? Probably not (and then the haters would likely have screamed that the Palin family was “hiding” the pregnancy.) > I know a ton of families that taught abstinence and their daughters didn’t get pregnant. One instance of pregnancy does not support a conclusion one way or another. > > The left-wing pundits aren’t bashing Bristol but they sure are using her situation to full advantage. To what advantage. ? Nothing there ,her daughter got preggers. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/78 "2008-09-04T22:49:14Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > To what advantage. ? Nothing there ,her daughter got preggers. Well, for one Bristol’s pregnancy obviously shows that abstinence is a complete failure and therefore Sarah is a fool. Two, her pregnancy shows that Sarah wasn’t a good mom. Three, Sarah is using the pregnancy by “releasing” the info in some nefarious plot to garner votes, or sympathy, or something. She’s a Republican so there must be something behind it. Have I missed any other ways pundits are trying to attack Palin through her daughter? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/79 "2008-09-04T23:13:46Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Well, for one Bristol’s pregnancy obviously shows that abstinence is a complete failure and therefore Sarah is a fool. Two, her pregnancy shows that Sarah wasn’t a good mom. Three, Sarah is using the pregnancy by “releasing” the info in some nefarious plot to garner votes, or sympathy, or something. She’s a Republican so there must be something behind it. > > Have I missed any other ways pundits are trying to attack Palin through her daughter? Does Bristol’s pregnancy show how effectively abstinence-only programs work? Does it say anything laudatory about Sarah Palin’s own efforts in teching her daughter how not to get pregnant while in high school? Does it speak to Palin’s qualities as a mom in general? Did the way this sensitive issue was broached in public suggest anything skillful in Palin’s (or McCain’s) abiity to prevent a story from going out of control? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/80 "2008-09-04T23:53:05Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Does Bristol’s pregnancy show how effectively abstinence-only programs work? Does it say anything laudatory about Sarah Palin’s own efforts in teching her daughter how not to get pregnant while in high school? Does it speak to Palin’s qualities as a mom in general? Did the way this sensitive issue was broached in public suggest anything skillful in Palin’s (or McCain’s) abiity to prevent a story from going out of control? Well, it shows that teaching abstinence doesn’t cause abstinence. A pack of condoms would have prevented this whole Jerry Springer spectacle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993.md?page=5)