# Let's talk seriously about Bristol Palin. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993 "2008-09-04T15:03:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/81 "2008-09-05T00:07:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well, it shows that teaching abstinence doesn’t cause abstinence. A pack of condoms would have prevented this whole Jerry Springer spectacle. I don’t think anyone is saying that teaching abstinence cures every instance of teen pregnancy. And a pack of condoms would have solved those problems, and condoms are available at every local pharmacy. Was there something in Alaska that prevented Bristol from buying condoms? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/82 "2008-09-05T00:43:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Was there something in Alaska that prevented Bristol from buying condoms? Her mother. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/83 "2008-09-05T00:44:02Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I don’t think anyone is saying that teaching abstinence cures every instance of teen pregnancy. And a pack of condoms would have solved those problems, and condoms are available at every local pharmacy. Was there something in Alaska that prevented Bristol from buying condoms? How about teaching the poor girl that even _considering_ buying a condom would be a sin? Teenage sex is, more often than not, a spur of the moment decision. If you are taught by church, home and school that being prepared is a _s_i_n_, chances are good that you suddenly aren’t going to put everything on hold in the heat of passion to run down to the local Rite-Aid to pick up condoms. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/84 "2008-09-05T00:51:40Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > What’s funny about it is that if Bristol were a black inner-city teen, the Republicans would point at her as proof that city folk don’t share their god fearing rural sensibilities. > > It’s a joke, the Repubs tell us every day how to live our lives, right from the Good Book. They have no problem telling gay people they can’t get married because of “family values”. They have no problem stamping out proper sex education because of “family values”. They want to prevent women from exercising rights over their own body because of “family values”. Yet, when one of their own portrays a definitive lack of said values, they suddenly decide it’s a personal matter. > > If it’s so goddamn personal, quit trying to shove your personal views on the topic down everyone else’s throat. Totally awesome. Bravo. My feeling about the “kids are off-limits” thing: Sure, I won’t judge the candidates based on their kids. Nor will I ridicule the kids based on their parents’ policies. But by the same token, I’m not going to judge the candidates more favorably based on how cute and sweet the kids are. I’m not more impressed by Palin than I am Obama simply because she has more kids (McCain made a big deal out of her Brady Bunch during his announcement of her…what male candidate would have gotten that treatment?) That all of McCain’s sons are serving in the military does not make me want to rush out and vote for him. So if kids are off-limits, shut up talking about them. If candidates want to exploit their Jenna’s, Chelsea’s, and Trig’s, then they’re just asking for the media to do the same. If Palin wants to run as “Top Hockey Mom” and parade her crazy-named bunch in front of all the cameras, then why shouldn’t people make judgements, good or bad, based on her children’s behavior? What’s the point of the parade if the intention isn’t to say something about her and her “quality”? Personally, I think her daughter’s choice in a boyfriend (rather than the pregnancy itself) makes her whole family, including Palin, look kind of low-brow. But I’m not CNN or Fox News, so I have a right to my opinion. All is fair in love and war, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/85 "2008-09-05T01:17:17Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I don’t think anyone is saying that teaching abstinence cures every instance of teen pregnancy. And a pack of condoms would have solved those problems, and condoms are available at every local pharmacy. Was there something in Alaska that prevented Bristol from buying condoms? Yeah, her mom. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/86 "2008-09-05T03:05:39Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > II think that most people, left or right, would agree that sex education is best done in the home, and is only necessary in schools because parents don’t do a good job of it. I feel the same about Calculus. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/87 "2008-09-05T03:07:01Z")
Nitpick: > [@](#): > > **Mr. Moto** : Note that it is on the website of New York magazine - which for all of its strangeness sometimes is still something of an institution. You were referring to a cite for your OP about the harsh comments that Bristol Palin has been facing from the media. These particular comments are the only really hateful ones that I have seen. They certainly aren’t typical. They are from a blog called _The Daily Intel_ which is found on the **New York** magazine’s website and which is also sent out in a newsletter if you choose to subscribe to it. If you read it, you will find that it is intentionally and admittedly inflamatory. To the best of my knowledge, this would never appear in the magazine itself. The **New York** magazine, however, is not to be confused with the well-respected and venerable **New Yorker** magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/88 "2008-09-05T12:17:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So it’s her mother’s fault that the US media behaves like assholes? What was assholish about breaking this story? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/89 "2008-09-05T13:35:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What was assholish about breaking this story? Wrong question, I think. If her mother is the one that broke the story, doesn’t that make _her_ the asshole? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/90 "2008-09-05T16:34:28Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Here’s the problem I have with this whole mess. Here’s the problem **I** have with this whole mess: the GOP is doing their best to play the victim card here - \*without any actual victimization. \* They’re going ninety to nothing, saying that people are attacking Bristol, and lobbing unfair criticism at Sarah, without ever saying who or what. It really is a sad spectacle. One can only regard it as evidence of the desperation that GOP strategists must feel at this time. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/91 "2008-09-05T16:47:15Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Here’s the problem **I** have with this whole mess: the GOP is doing their best to play the victim card here - \*without any actual victimization. \* They’re going ninety to nothing, saying that people are attacking Bristol, and lobbing unfair criticism at Sarah, without ever saying who or what. > > It really is a sad spectacle. One can only regard it as evidence of the desperation that GOP strategists must feel at this time. Where ARE you guys, anyway? We thought for sure somebody woulda broken ranks and taken a shot or two at Bristol Palin by now. Don’t tell us we’re reduced to using a supermarket tabloid as our best example of the Eastern Elite Establishment Media–that would make us look idiots. Don’t do that to us. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/92 "2008-09-05T16:51:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yeah, her mom. Her mom tried to keep her from fucking, too, and we see how well that worked. You are saying that her mom is wrong, but if she had listened to her, I can guarantee you 100% that she would not be pregnant right now. If she had listened to your advice, then there is a 90+% chance that she wouldn’t be pregnant right now. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/93 "2008-09-05T16:53:35Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > [QUOTE=Voyager] > > I think that most people, left or right, would agree that sex education is best done in the home, and is only necessary in schools because parents don’t do a good job of it. I feel the same about Calculus. [/QUOTE] Our children need to be taught that there are limits. Learning to differentiate between good and bad choices is integral to learning how to function in today’s increasingly complex world. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/94 "2008-09-05T17:03:19Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I know a ton of families that taught abstinence and their daughters didn’t get pregnant. One instance of pregnancy does not support a conclusion one way or another. And lots of times FEMA doesn’t prepare for hurricanes and gets away with it. Lots of times bankers lend people money who can’t afford a house and get away with it. You can usually tailgate someone at 75 and get away with it. But anyone I’d want to be president plans for the worst case scenario, and doesn’t hope for the best. I’m not saying only Republicans screw up this way - the reason Hillary isn’t the nominee is that she didn’t plan for not sweeping super Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/95 "2008-09-05T17:05:00Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I feel the same about Calculus. Me too. You can be sure that I had my copy of Thomas out when my daughters were taking it in high school. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/96 "2008-09-05T17:06:03Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Our children need to be taught that there are limits. Learning to differentiate between good and bad choices is integral to learning how to function in today’s increasingly complex world. > > 😛 And how to be good and avoid sine - not to mention cosine. But I don’t want this thread to go off on a tangent. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/97 "2008-09-05T17:06:37Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Her mom tried to keep her from fucking, too, and we see how well that worked. You are saying that her mom is wrong, but if she had listened to her, I can guarantee you 100% that she would not be pregnant right now. > > If she had listened to your advice, then there is a 90+% chance that she wouldn’t be pregnant right now. “If she had listened” is a circular argument. The point is, they _don’t_ listen. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/98 "2008-09-05T19:03:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > “If she had listened” is a circular argument. The point is, they _don’t_ listen. Let’s be more specific - there are two (well, three) decision cases under discusson here. 1. in a state of complete calm, deciding whether to buy a pack of comdoms or not. 2. in the heat of passion if they have a condom, deciding whether to have sex with a condom, without a condom, or not at all. 2b) in the heat of passion if they _don’t_ have a condom, deciding whether to have sex without a condom or not at all. In case 1, I think it’s safe to say that some teenagers are influenced by their parents - they’re calm enough to think of the consequences, which may include parental reactions of finding condoms in their child’s possession or hearing that they were purchased. In cases 2 and 3, obviously some teenagers do listen some of the time, but the overwhelming majority are _not_ going to choose abstinence once they’ve got themselves breathing hot and heavy. If they have a condom on their person, then at least they have a reasonably likelihood of choosing the option with that 90+% working for them. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/99 "2008-09-05T19:17:47Z")
My position on sex education is that maintaining an atmosphere of conservative disapproval of sexual behavior makes them reluctant to be seen in public buying contraceptives. But it’s not enough to stop them from having sex, which after all, occurs in private. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993/100 "2008-09-05T19:22:16Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > My position on sex education is that maintaining an atmosphere of conservative disapproval of sexual behavior makes them reluctant to be seen in public buying contraceptives. But it’s not enough to stop them from having sex, which after all, occurs in private. Especially if it is a small town. If your mom performs weddings at the Walmart, chances are, the folks at the counter will probably recognize your family. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-seriously-about-bristol-palin/461993.md?page=6)