# Let's talk SOPA **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280 "2011-11-17T22:32:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/101 "2012-01-18T19:52:22Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > So seriously…why is a company like Ford Motor Co. on that list of pro-SOPA corporations? I get the TV/media/content provider, etc companies on there…but an automaker? [Ford doesn’t actually support SOPA/PIPA](https://twitter.com/#!/Ford/status/149613389314920448). Ford was one of the signatories to [the open letter which led to SOPA](http://www.theglobalipcenter.com/sites/default/files/pressreleases/letter-359.pdf), which is why they’re listed on all the petitions. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/102 "2012-01-18T19:55:58Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The main risk is that the coin-operated politicians will simply wait until the heat dies down and try again. I’m not sure the heat ever will die down. If SOPA 2.0 ever comes close to law, Wikipedia et al will just rally the troops a second time. Politicians like lobbyist money, but they like being re-elected even more. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/103 "2012-01-18T19:56:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Ford doesn’t actually support SOPA/PIPA](https://twitter.com/#!/Ford/status/149613389314920448). Ford was one of the signatories to [the open letter which led to SOPA](http://www.theglobalipcenter.com/sites/default/files/pressreleases/letter-359.pdf), which is why they’re listed on all the petitions. Ah…interesting. I wonder how many companies are in the position Ford is in right now…allowing their company name to be attached to a letter to Congress asking them to do something about internet piracy and now the result is SOPA and they’re like “Well we didn’t want _that_!” and now some people believe that they support the bill when in reality they only support the general gist behind the bill (as do I…trying to reduce/stop piracy…but not like how SOPA would have done it). ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/104 "2012-01-18T20:07:11Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Ah…interesting. I wonder how many companies are in the position Ford is in right now…allowing their company name to be attached to a letter to Congress asking them to do something about internet piracy and now the result is SOPA and they’re like “Well we didn’t want _that_!” and now some people believe that they support the bill when in reality they only support the general gist behind the bill (as do I…trying to reduce/stop piracy…but not like how SOPA would have done it). Off the top of my head, the Entertainment Software Association (video game makers) heavily supports SOPA. However, most game companies think it’s terrible and have made big public showings of pulling support from the bill. I’ll bet it’s like that with a lot of the companies on these lists. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/105 "2012-01-18T20:07:24Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The main risk is that the coin-operated politicians will simply wait until the heat dies down and try again. Google and EFF aren’t going anywhere, and I doubt Congress will be able to revive similar legislation without drawing their notice. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/106 "2012-01-18T20:14:59Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > coin-operated politicians I’m gonna steal that if you don’t mind, because it is very awesome. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/107 "2012-01-18T20:16:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I’m gonna steal that if you don’t mind, because it is very awesome. Good God, man, that’s copyright infringement! You could get the whole thread shut down! ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/108 "2012-01-18T20:16:50Z")
So why did the Pres sign NDAA when he promised to veto anyway? ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/109 "2012-01-18T22:44:06Z")
I hear you, but I don’t think you realize what lobbying heavyweights the RIAA and the Chamber of Commerce are. They have a successful track record going back to the 40s. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/110 "2012-01-18T22:58:13Z")
Of course not. Neither do I support fundamental changes to the internet. It’s a choice between two evils. I also think perpetual copyright is unconstitutional. The media industries are way too powerful and greedy. Let’s go back to a 17-year term. Should be long enough for a living artist. Any real artists out there to comment? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/111 "2012-01-18T23:16:47Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > So why did the Pres sign NDAA when he promised to veto anyway? IIRC, he promised to veto it if the provision allowing for detention of US nationals wasn’t removed. It was removed. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/112 "2012-01-18T23:22:53Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > Of course not. Neither do I support fundamental changes to the internet. It’s a choice between two evils. I also think perpetual copyright is unconstitutional. The media industries are way too powerful and greedy. Let’s go back to a 17-year term. Should be long enough for a living artist. Any real artists out there to comment? The problem isn’t necessarily companies who make use of their work retaining copyright (imo), it’s the ones that sit on it. I don’t really have an issue with Star Wars remaining in copyright because it’s licensed out like a 50 cent hooker, sure a lot of crap, but the expanded universe is huge. Sure, Lucas still makes money off of it, but hey, he’s giving everyone a chance. Even if he didn’t license it out but was still making things in-house (i.e. with LucasArts) it wouldn’t be a big deal. It’s when companies copyright a song and then complain when somebody uses it 30 years down the road even though they had no intention to release it again that it starts to raise eyebrows. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/113 "2012-01-18T23:35:42Z")
That reminded me of something which might explain why Ford cares: [it _is_ about car names.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cobra#Autokraft_era) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/114 "2012-01-19T00:05:24Z")
What’s laughable is that the entertainment industry thought they could get away with something this mind-blowingly transparent. They have a wall of money to throw at their politicians, but the internet is far, far bigger than _that._ The very platform they tried to cripple, is the very platform that will taint the supporters of this bill. Re-election suicide. I’m sort of glad this bill has exploded into awareness. It exposes one of the raw nerves of what’s wrong with our bi-polar government and those who can’t keep in touch with the fast moving advancement of technology or those strong armed by lobbyists. Find a new model that works Corporate Media. The world has changed going on 15 years now. Get your shit together, already. The internet stays as is. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/115 "2012-01-19T00:14:31Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Even if he didn’t license it out but was still making things in-house (i.e. with LucasArts) it wouldn’t be a big deal. It’s when companies copyright a song and then complain when somebody uses it 30 years down the road even though they had no intention to release it again that it starts to raise eyebrows. Oh yeah. I still haven’t quite digested the bullshit 20th Century Fox pulled over the \*Watchmen \*movie. Can’t be arsed to do anything with rights they’d owned since 1986, but oooh boy, if someone else is doing something with it, can you hear that choo-choo in the distance ? That’s the easy cash grab train coming to the station ! ---
**Author:** ![space\_loner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@space\_loner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/space_loner)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/116 "2012-01-19T00:32:13Z")
“If you want to raise the tax 5%, say you are going to raise it 10%, let the people fight for it, and then pretend to back down. That way you get your 5% raise, and the people think they’ve won.” That is how I’ve always considered the SOPA bill: with the public outcry it has received it was clearly never going to pass, but maybe it was never intended to. The lobbyists have the money and willpower to continually bombard congress with various iterations and versions of the bill, and a single slip of vigilance on the part of the protestors will be our doom. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/117 "2012-01-19T01:54:38Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I also wonder how this will affect our internet security. Honestly, somebody could more or less cause worldwide panic and failure by taking down a couple top-level DNS servers. The more people we give access to alter these servers (especially for a reason like this), the more you’re opening yourself up to catastrophic failure in your future. I’ve nicked this off someone else on another messageboard, but have asked him, so it’s not copyright infringment, because I think it’s a pretty good explanation of howit could affect security: > [@](#): > > Some people in the US goverment who don’t really understand how the internet works but enjoy taking money from lobbyists have made a proposal on behalf of digital content owners like Hollywood, Sony et al, which would involve buggering up the way the internet translates the human-friendly version of a site’s address e.g. ‘[www.urban75.net](http://www.urban75.net)’ into the actual address which is a set of numbers like: “82.188.239.25” > > The idea is to make it harder to find sites offering content without the copyright holder’s approval. It can’t actually block access, because you can always type in the numeric address. > > What it would do if implemented, is provide an exciting business opportunity for e.g. the Russian mafia, to create address translation services running outside the control of the US government that would helpfully fix the problem of accessing your favourite content site, while also redirecting any attempt to do electronic banking via their own version of your bank’s website, at least for long enough to harvest your password. > > Isn’t technology wonderful? > > Beyond the (evidently unworkable) technical implementation being proposed, SOPA contains all kinds of draconian legal stuff that can be used against people infringing copyright. Things being the way they are, it’s also pretty inevitable that this would be used in various trumped-up ways against any form of speech that pissed off corporate America. So the bill would block access to sites, like, say, the Straight Dope if someone came on here and posted links to illegal copyrighted work (because that is actually it takes - posting links, not even posting the content yourself). Or sites like mumsnet or health product sites with forums. Not piracy sites by any means and not sites where you’d expect every user to be tech-savvy. So people try to access those sites, Google for a way round it, involving rerouting, then don’t realise that all their _other_ sites are also being rerouted, including the ones where they submit financial details. > [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > Curious on your guys’ views: > > Apologies if it’s a tired debate, but: Do you support piracy? Is piracy good/bad? > > I’m well aware of the “wouldn’t buy it anyway” argument, but I’m still curious what you think. Who does piracy hurt? Help? TBH the debate isn’t really about piracy, but about unfairly restricting fair use and shutting sites down without due process. It would be as if, in response to shoplifting, the govt forced shops to shut down. > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The main risk is that the coin-operated politicians will simply wait until the heat dies down and try again. That is an awesome phrase and I am going to steal that too. I’m, like, a word-pirate. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/118 "2012-01-19T02:25:22Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > [Here’s a convenient list of companies to boycott for their support of these acts.](http://www.fightonlinetheft.com/voices-of-support/companies) Of course big pharma would love to dump money on supporting intellectual property. At first I was surprised to see all their names there, but then I realized they’re just allied with anyone who takes a pro-IP stance. God knows they’d rather spend money on lobbying and advertising then, you know, _actual research_. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/119 "2012-01-19T02:35:16Z")
BTW, I know Downfall parodies are old hat, but [this one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvXo4sGB7zM&feature=player_embedded) is actually very funny and a straightforward explanation of the problems with SOPA. And I wonder how well parodies would fare under SOPA. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280/120 "2012-01-19T03:10:43Z")
That’s great, **SciFiSam**. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-sopa/603280.md?page=7)