# Letter left with a stray dog at the Humane Society: **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595 "2003-07-29T05:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/41 "2003-07-29T20:49:45Z")
> [@](#): > > There is no indication in the OP that the dog was abused. There is no indication it was neglected. And there’s no evidence indicating that he **wasn’t**. So let’s all stop acting like we know what the fuck is going on in the OP. If I saw a dog continually straying, and **abused** , I’d do the same thing. If it was just a stray, I’d probably report him to the ACC or something. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/42 "2003-07-29T21:25:49Z")
Thanks for the clarification, Miller. My vitriol towards other posters is hereby withdrawn with a sincere apology. However, I don’t think Miller did wrong. Having a pet who continually frees himself and puts himself in harm’s way connotates an irresponsible owner who doesn’t deserve to have an animal companion. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/43 "2003-07-29T21:27:02Z")
**Miller** : While I admire your convictions, and your willingness to take action, I believe you are very much in the wrong here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/44 "2003-07-29T21:27:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\* I feel secure in my actions. If the Humane Society wants, they have my phone number and I still have the tags: they can call me if they think the owners should get a fourth shot at endangering their pet. I’m pretty sure I won’t be hearing from them. \*\* Well, it’s good that you left them your phone number: now, if they don’t want to be accomplices to a crime, they can call you and get the correct information. There are proper ways of handling neglect. This ain’t one of them. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/45 "2003-07-29T21:30:23Z")
I should add: if the humane society DOESN’T contact you, I’d say they are very stupid, and not long for this world. A local humane society 'round these parts went out of business because they neutered somebody’s pet, AFTER the stray/wait period had passed. This is a field with lots of liability, and they sure as shit don’t want to open themselves up like this. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/46 "2003-07-29T21:47:41Z")
JLZANIA – > [@](#): > > I’m not certainly not using that as a justification for removing a dog’s collar and taking it to the pound but I did think your statement about loose dogs in a rural area was more than a little cavalier. _:: Shrug ::_ Take it as you find it; that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. But then, I never said your mileage might not vary. I said “There is no indication in the OP that the dog was abused. There is no indication it was neglected.” To which GAWD replies – > [@](#): > > And there’s no evidence indicating that he wasn’t. So let’s all stop acting like we know what the fuck is going on in the OP. Y’know, this bugs the shit out of me. We only ever know what we are told by the OP’er. It is not incumbent upon any of us to pull extra facts out of our asses: “Maybe it was a legless dog! Maybe it was a _blind_ legless dog!” We comment on OPs in light of the information given. All we are _ever_ going to know, in any conversation, is what we are told. To say that we cannot comment because we “don’t know all the facts” strikes me as ridiculous, especially on a message board. The person _holding_ all the facts has, assumably, told us what he or she thinks is relevant, and that’s what we comment on. I hate it when people start wild-ass guessing shit that’s not in the OP – and I equally hate it when people reprimand others for having the temerity to actually _comment_ on what we are told – as if that’s not the entire point of the whole flipping board. Based on what I know of him, I’m fairly certain MILLER himself would agree with this. He’s already said the original OP wasn’t the greatest, and it apparently left a lot of important stuff out. That said, I _still_ do not believe MILLER was right to unilaterally decide to deprive these people of their dog, because it’s not his decision. I see no problem in taking the dog in and reporting it as a neglected animal _and_ as a nuisance, if not a danger to the neighborhood, which an unaltered male rottie mix, running at night would almost certainly be. The shelter is not required to return neglected dogs to their owners – indeed, is probably required by law _not_ to do so. IMO it wasn’t MILLER’s call. But then I am so much Little Miss Law And Order that stories of people taking the law into their own hands almost always strike me the wrong way. I feel secure in my actions. If the Humane Society wants, they have my phone number and I still have the tags: they can call me if they think the owners should get a fourth shot at endangering their pet. And there’s no evidence indicating that he wasn’t. So let’s all stop acting like we know what the fuck is going on in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/47 "2003-07-29T21:49:13Z")
i support **Miller** 100% ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/48 "2003-07-29T22:25:29Z")
My “escape artist” is a very skinny dog for her breed (shepherd/lab mix), even though we feed her free choice. We have asked the vet about it, and he says as long as she’s full of energy and otherwise healthy, she’s fine. He sees her several times a year, and I’m sure he’d let us know if he thought there was cause for concern. So I guess the next time she gets loose on us (thankfully, it’s been a long time), I’d better hope that someone like Miller doesn’t find her, decide she’s undernourished, and send her off to the pound. And I would also take exception to the idea that an hour is an excessively long time for these people to come and get the dog. You don’t know their lives. I’m self-employed and there are times in my day when no, I don’t have ten minutes to spare, because I need to meet a deadline and avoid angering a client. One assumes that Miller told the people he had their dog safe. That in itself may have been enough of a relief, and maybe on that day it took them an hour to get there. Maybe they had to wait for someone to get home with the car. Maybe they needed to find someone to stay home with the kids. Maybe they have a medical problem that makes them take a long time to get ready to go somewhere. Maybe they were in the middle of a task that needed to be finished first to avoid a huge mess or waste. Cripes. Sometimes when we go away for the weekend, we leave our dogs outside in their secure, shaded pens with nice doghouses, and (if it’s more than one night) have someone stop in once a day (or more when it’s hot) to make sure they have food & water. So they rough it for a few days, and they get extra spoiling when we come back. I suppose if some self-righteous nut comes along and decides that “leaving the dogs outside home alone” = “neglect,” we might come home one day to empty kennels? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/49 "2003-07-29T22:57:34Z")
I think something that’s being overlooked in **Miller** ’s OP is the fact that the SAME person found this dog THREE times. For those on the board who have had difficulty keeping their pets corralled all the time, surely one can see the difference between a person finding said pet _once_ versus _repeatedly_. I mean, this is JMHO, but I would never decide on an animal’s fate from a one-time encounter over that of what the owner’s wishes would be. I’m hoping anyone in that circumstance would call off of the pet’s tags. However, I’d have to consider the most _innocent_ party’s options (said animal) if I’d had several encounter with the owner(s) and situation and it perhaps appearing worse because of it. Now, **Miller** hasn’t elaborated, but I wondered what the attitude of this person/owner was? Not concerned? Flippant? Like some of the other folks here have described about people they have dealt with who simply haven’t given a shit? Maybe that, if applicable, factored into his decision. **Miller** is there any more information out there you’d like to add? Lastly, having lived in the country with lots of strays having been dumped, animals get salvaged some and shot some. I guess it’s a toss up on which happens most, but, being from the family who did a lot of the saving, _seems_ we heard more stories 'bout the killings. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/50 "2003-07-29T22:57:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scarlett67 \* > My “escape artist” is a very skinny dog for her breed (shepherd/lab mix), even though we feed her free choice. We have asked the vet about it, and he says as long as she’s full of energy and otherwise healthy, she’s fine. He sees her several times a year, and I’m sure he’d let us know if he thought there was cause for concern. > > So I guess the next time she gets loose on us (thankfully, it’s been a long time), I’d better hope that someone like Miller doesn’t find her, decide she’s undernourished, and send her off to the pound. To be clear: I didn’t do this because I thought the dog was too skinny. I did notice that the dog (which was not overweight to begin with) had become noticably skinnier between the first and third times I found him. However, that’s secondary to my primary complaint, which was that I had found the dog wandering the street three times in less than sixty days. Since I walk my dog at different times every day and take a variety of different paths, the fact that I found the same dog three different times in three widely seperated places seems a clear indicator that the dog had been loose considerably more often than the three times I had found him. _This_ is why I took him to the shelter, not because he was just skinny. And you should hope that somebody like me _does_ find your dog, because I usually make every effort to get a stray pet back to the proper owners, as I did the first two times I found this dog. I’m under no obligation to do so. I could just as easily leave your dog to take its chances on the street, or take it directly to the shelter so you would have to pay a fine (~$80, I believe) to get your dog back. > [@](#): > > And I would also take exception to the idea that an hour is an excessively long time for these people to come and get the dog. And I take exception to the idea that you’d let total strangers who are doing you an enormous favor by _saving your dog’s life_ act as unpaid and unthanked dog-sitters while you take your own sweet time to come and pick up your pet. > [@](#): > > You don’t know their lives. I’m self-employed and there are times in my day when no, I don’t have ten minutes to spare, because I need to meet a deadline and avoid angering a client. One assumes that Miller told the people he had their dog safe. That in itself may have been enough of a relief, and maybe on that day it took them an hour to get there. Maybe they had to wait for someone to get home with the car. Maybe they needed to find someone to stay home with the kids. Maybe they have a medical problem that makes them take a long time to get ready to go somewhere. Maybe they were in the middle of a task that needed to be finished first to avoid a huge mess or waste. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I’d like to direct you to **Jodi** ’s earlier post about assuming facts not in evidence. If there was a reason they couldn’t get their dog sooner, they should have said so when I told them I had the animal. > [@](#): > > Cripes. Sometimes when we go away for the weekend, we leave our dogs outside in their secure, shaded pens with nice doghouses, and (if it’s more than one night) have someone stop in once a day (or more when it’s hot) to make sure they have food & water. So they rough it for a few days, and they get extra spoiling when we come back. I suppose if some self-righteous nut comes along and decides that “leaving the dogs outside home alone” = “neglect,” we might come home one day to empty kennels? This isn’t just an “outdoor” dog, this is a dog that is wandering, unattended, as far as _five miles_ from the owner’s property, through high-traffic, heavily populated areas, on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/51 "2003-07-29T23:04:39Z")
Sounds to me like if Miller found the dog on three separate occasions, and the owner lived five miles away, that is a dog that does a LOT of wandering. From his clarification, it sure sounds like a case of neglect to me. All that being said, I still think that what Miller did was probably legally wrong but morally defensible. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/52 "2003-07-29T23:16:33Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by hopefool_ > However, I’d have to consider the most innocent party’s options (said animal) if I’d had several encounter with the owner(s) and situation and it perhaps appearing worse because of it. Now, Miller hasn’t elaborated, but I wondered what the attitude of this person/owner was? Not concerned? Flippant? Like some of the other folks here have described about people they have dealt with who simply haven’t given a shit? Maybe that, if applicable, factored into his decision. Miller is there any more information out there you’d like to add? Only met him briefly the first time, when he came to pick up the dog at my house. He was very matter of fact about it. If it had been my dog who had gone missing, I’d have been much happier to find him safe and much more gracious to the people who had found him. This guy just showed up, mumbled a “Thanks” and left with the dog. The second time, when I took him back home personally, I met the guy’s roommate, who asked if we’d like to keep the dog. I assumed he was joking, although if this was a regular occurence, perhaps he wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/53 "2003-07-29T23:23:55Z")
hey, **Miller** , we need another BAD-fest so i can buy you a drink. And maybe if we wander around downtown enough we’ll run into that dog again… ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/54 "2003-07-29T23:25:29Z")
Thanks for clarifying **Miller**. I think under the circumstances, you did the morally right thing by the dog. And, if the shelter would like to persue the matter further with the owner for liability reasons, then all they have to do is contact you. Good on you for being caring. ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/55 "2003-07-30T00:34:18Z")
Miller, my apologies for the asshole comment. You didn’t deserve that. Thanks for the explanation. Honestly, this is one of those situations where I’m torn. On one hand, this could easily be a situation that my brother finds himself in, and I know that he’s a good pet owner - but because Nalla is an escape artist, she could be, and has been, found 5 miles from home before. I would be livid if someone had taken her to the humane society when she had her tags on. However, I think that the fact that you’ve found this dog three times in three different places speaks volumes. I don’t necessarily know that removing the tags was the smartest thing in the world, although it’s good that you left your name and number. I don’t know - this seems to be one of those situations where the red line is so thin it’s invisible. Please keep us posted on the outcome. Ava ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/56 "2003-07-30T01:59:31Z")
That’s alright, **avabeth**. My OP wasn’t very good; I’d probably have had the same reaction if someone else had posted it. **Tars** , I look forward to taking you up on that drink. It only just occured to me, but the dog probably has one of those implanted microchips, so they probably don’t even need to tags to find out who the owner was. Either that, or the shelter agreed with my decision, since I haven’t heard back from them today. Taking off the tags was probably a little rash. If my suspicions about the owners are correct, they probably wouldn’t bother paying the fine to get the dog back anyway. I’ll try and call the shelter tomorrow, see how Sabbath is doing. ---
**Author:** ![tramp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@tramp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tramp)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/57 "2003-07-30T02:41:35Z")
Miller I also support you 100%. If anyone knows of a fox terrier that needs a home in DC, I’m looking to get one. ---
**Author:** ![the\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@the\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_Lady)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/58 "2003-07-30T03:21:49Z")
I am with you **Miller**. Assuming the owner DOES want the dog back, I would assume the shelter would be one of the first places he’d call. “Why, yes. We do have a dog matching that description…” ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/59 "2003-07-30T03:59:51Z")
If I ever make it to a BADfest again, I may just buy you a drink, too, **Miller** But not you, **Tars**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595/60 "2003-07-30T07:21:35Z")
Fuck the dog owners, 3 strikes and yer out. It’s not just obnoxious for a dog to run free, it’s dangerous for the dog, and sometimes dangerous for people. It’s irresponsible and they don’t deserve to have the dog. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-left-with-a-stray-dog-at-the-humane-society/191595.md?page=4)