Are you selling it yourself or through a land agent?
Ask your broker.
That’s why you should never buy a property without inspecting it first. If it’s a remote parcel that the current owners say they almost never visit, but it looks like someone has been driving through the land every summer for 18 years… maybe you don’t want to buy it without figuring out WTF is going on first?
Is there physical evidence (other than those pictures you mentioned) that the 90 yard strip of land is often used by vehicles? (For example, is the vegetation different, are there tire ruts). And does that evidence seem continuous for18 years?
In any case, you obviously need a better lawyer, with specific experience in easements, and specific experience with the specific county bureaucrats who would sign the easement. Knowing the law is nice, but knowing the right people is even more effective…
Seems like you should talk to the property owner. Are they avail? I’ve scanned through I don’t any mention of anything like that. Have you spoken to the other property owner?
Ah, what you are describing is a form of what is also called “adverse possession” in some jurisdictions. It will require an attorney, most likely, and then there will be court filings of record; you may have to have some way to prove you have been using it for the requisite time (say, old Google Earth imagery showing a two-track access road across the property in question?).
Covering a couple of the questions:
Multiple owners over the last 28 years we’ve owned it. All absentee. One I discussed the arrangement with and we might want to buy that strip. His answer was, “Everything has a price.”
We drive to the property a couple times a year. We never use our real easement as we want a non-broken car. We have always use the county road then turn left onto the strip of land along the north boundary of the other property to park or hike to the property.
We have had a few offers on the land but as soon as they here there is no legal access to the county road, the offers drop by at least $20K. It is technically not landlocked but realistically is.
Eventually we want to buy the strip since buyers want to build a road eventually, but I have always learned to get the easement first. In Colorado, if we talk to the owner and they say, “Don’t worry about it. Go ahead and park there.” We have immediately lost our right to a prescriptive easement and no guaranty they will sell us the strip we need.
There is a controversy in that the owners further up the road have built a gate and lock it right at that boundary. How can they close off a county road? Welcome to rural law enforcement. We are not sure how that affects our right to an easement. And we are thinking that with an easement they would (at the very least) need to add our lock to the chain.
I know that especially on a question like this, YMMV depending on state.
I talked with the previous owner. The new one is likewise in another state (I have his info) but that sale recently happened and there is something strange I can’t translate in the documents. I talked to the previous owner and let him know we use that strip (Does that count as open? Wish the attorney would tell us) but like I said before, to not lose our potential easement the conversation must be delicate.
If I were the owner and you started an honest conversation with me, I’d be willing to work out something very fair. If the first communication was from a lawyer, I’d tell you to go fuck yourself.
That’s definitely my feeling as well. Is it possible to find out what similar easements are sold for?
I’d be really surprised if a couple of times a year qualifies as open, notorious and continuous. Talk to a lawyer of course, but if you only use it a couple of times a year, I don’t see how the owner could know that you’re using it. Even if they saw the vehicle parked, if I saw a vehicle parked on my property a few times a year, possibly months apart, I wouldn’t necessarily know that it was the same person from one time to the next. And random, different people parking there a couple of times over 18 years would not result in an easement. ( IANAL but there does have to be a connection - if schoolchildren regularly cut across my property on the way to school for 18 years, that might establish an easement for kids going to school but not for everyone regardless of their destination. If you use my driveway for 7 years and then sell it to someone who uses it for 12, that would be enough time because you’re both connected to the same property) And they could easily have never seen you if it’s only a couple times a year.
I’m going to ask what might be a silly question
Did you not do the same when you bought it?
Did you talk to the previous owner before or after he sold it?
This is going to sound snarky no matter how I ask it, but I’m truly curious. The first attorney recommended you speak to an attorney in that county. Is there a reason you haven’t done this?
The gate part. In Arkansas you cannot gate a county road or an easement between them. A strip of land is not, IMO, an easement. If it’s been in use by other vehicles and connects to county roads that may be an easement.
You really need to talk to the professionals about this. The landowners seem at least, not interested. Or unwilling.
The prior owner said everything has a price. Did you ask what the price was? Was it less than the $20k reduction you say buyers have offered you?
I’m not sure what policy would give you rights to that strip just because it would be financially advantageous to you. Don’t mean to sound too rude, but it sounds as though you are trying to essentially “scam” something for free rather than pay the price up front. Strikes me as kinda shitty, but folk use legal maneuvering to do shitty stuff all the time.
If you don’t want to buy it, the single answer would be to hire a competent lawyer in that locality who specializes in such things.
I did not buy it. Mrs Cad did. Long story behind that but suffice to say issues like access did not concern her at the time.
This phone call happened today. It was a free referral from work and not worth the price.
One, we think we have a right to it as an easement. Do we really? That’s why we called the attorney. It’s no more a scam than any other adverse possession claim and since when is it scammy to ask an attorney what your legal rights are.
Two, I have said we do intend to buy the strip but I have learned that do the easement first then negotiate so that we still have access
I’ve dealt with this a bit. In trying to prove that there has be notorious access for years. I work for county government. Your county may have aerial photos that are dated that shows the access that you are using.
Or try USDA Aerials your county might not have 18 year old photos. USDA might.
Hire a lawyer with land rights knowledge.
You cannot just say you have rights to this strip of land that is legally owned by another person.
If you spend $5000 on a lawyer. He gets you some rights, somehow. Either you buy it or get it in some purported easement rights written in an obscure law book. You can then sell it at it’s appraised price without compunction.
Beware though, if you are granted an easement, now it’s a road and you will be responsible for it and it’s maintainance and safety till you sell it.
Like I said, I’d use it like it stands. Sell it for the loss and let the new landowner deal with it. YMMV
ETA: sell to a logging company. They won’t give two shits about the easement.
Would it be easier & / or cheaper to improve the easement you DO have?
^^^that exactly
Nope!
So it sounds like we need to talk to an attorney that will help to even see if we have the right to the easement. If not, then no harm by opening negotiations to buy that strip.