# Letter To The Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286 "2017-07-14T22:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/81 "2017-07-15T16:21:00Z")
Well, it is simple, really. If you don’t want to be called Alt-Right, don’t use a term that in my experience, is a 100% accurate marker of being a member of that group. Because even if you claim that you are not one, the use of the term makes it clear that you are at very least, part of that mindset and a sympathizer. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/82 "2017-07-15T16:23:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wonder what it must be like being the one enlightened and aware person wandering through a world of sheep. Praise to you for continuing to try to bring wisdom to all of us dolts, despite the incredible disdain you very clearly hold for pretty much all of us. I saw someone in a comment section recently tell another commenter he was probably “the kind of guy who thinks calling someone a ‘statist’ is a withering insult.” **WillFarnaby** is not as unique as he probably thinks he is, nor (unfortunately) as unique as we wish he were. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/83 "2017-07-15T16:24:19Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > As I explained elsewhere and from my experience with Alt-Right people. > > They are racists and sexists, but believe that their position is logical and rational. That Black people (and most other minorities) are demonstrably inferior. That women are demonstrably inferior to men. That taking actions to reduce racism and sexism are favoritism and only exacerbate the problem. That if we all just stopped talking about it, everything would be fine. > > As the Wikipedia page says; > > “Alt-right beliefs have been described as isolationist, protectionist, antisemitic, and white supremacist, frequently overlapping with Neo-Nazism, nativism and Islamophobia, antifeminism and homophobia, right-wing populism, and the neoreactionary movement. The concept has further been associated with multiple groups from American nationalists, neo-monarchists, men’s rights advocates, and the 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump.” > > The term they use, which I do not repeat, refers to men who enjoy being subjugated by women and other men. This is their highest insult, because real men are powerful and never accept subordination. Except to the real rich and powerful, who deserve their positions, who have earned their positions. > > Basically, Heterosexual White Men are the highest form of Humanity and everyone else is clearly, rationally and logically inferior. :rolleyes: Ah, OK. And I did little googling, which confirmed your analysis. I did not know that, but I’m not sure if I’m better off now than before as there is some knowledge not worth knowing. Perhaps I could have cured cancer with the part of my brain now taken up by that knowledge! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/84 "2017-07-15T16:31:16Z")
Just rebranded Nazis, who held the same basic beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/85 "2017-07-15T16:32:11Z")
It continually heartens me how often people have never heard of these douchebags before. It makes me realize they are more irrelevant than even _I_ think they are. Though it does make me feel somewhat sorry for people having to learn about them. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/86 "2017-07-15T16:42:02Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Conservatives will always be vulnerable to moral grand-standing by progressives, lefties, liberals, moderates, moderate libertarians or whatever the ultra-statists wish to call themselves. This is because they have largely bought into the idea that the progressives et al. have the moral high ground. They believe that egalitarianism is a good idea, but not practical. They believe government can and should sculpt society into an ideal form, but their form is maybe a little different. They believe government should end sin and deliver salvation. These beliefs are foundational to today’s politics, at least to 95% of the politically aware. > > The progressives et al. know that calling you a racist is effective. They know that appealing to your desire for equality or homogeneity is effective. They know they can browbeat you all day long Nice enemy you’ve conjured up there. Sorry you need it. Would you like a kleenex? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/87 "2017-07-15T16:43:36Z")
What is really stupid about that is that if you look at the really conservative states, those are the ones trying their best to sculpt society and force people into little boxes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/88 "2017-07-15T16:46:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I saw someone in a comment section recently tell another commenter he was probably “the kind of guy who thinks calling someone a ‘statist’ is a withering insult.” > > **WillFarnaby** is not as unique as he probably thinks he is, nor (unfortunately) as unique as we wish he were. You especially have to watch out for the worst statists of all-- the “moderate libertarians”. They are sneaky as all get out!! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/89 "2017-07-15T17:12:31Z")
Like they tried to make “Liberal” an insult. Sometimes the looks on people’s faces when they spit that out like profanity and I smile and admit that AM a Liberal is precious. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/90 "2017-07-15T17:19:05Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > He’s the first poster I ever put on ignore, not because I disagreed with his viewpoints, but because he seemed like a mean-spirited person. Oh, and he used the phrase ‘‘beta cucks’’ with a straight face. On mine, too, but not the first. First person I ever put on my own ignore list was because of intense confusion with another poster. **Derleth** is an intelligent poster. But then I’d be reading a post that was just so achingly dumb, like, when-did-Derleth-get-a-lobotomy stupid. I just could not for the life of me understand how a poster who ordinarily wrote such sensible things could suddenly sound like a middle-schooler whose hobby was eating lead-based paint chips. Intense whiplash from dumb-smart-dumb-smart. It was like Jekyll and Hyde. When I finally figured out it was actually two different posters, I felt an intense sense of relief. And then resorted to the ignore function. No fair to the good posters when the bad poster has a sufficiently similar name. Same case here, so into my ignore list the “beta cuck” moron went. No loss not to read his posts. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/91 "2017-07-15T17:22:46Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > On mine, too, but not the first. > > First person I ever put on my own ignore list was because of intense confusion with another poster. **Derleth** is an intelligent poster. But then I’d be reading a post that was just so achingly dumb, like, when-did-Derleth-get-a-lobotomy stupid. I just could not for the life of me understand how a poster who ordinarily wrote such sensible things could suddenly sound like a middle-schooler whose hobby was eating lead-based paint chips. Intense whiplash from dumb-smart-dumb-smart. It was like Jekyll and Hyde. > > When I finally figured out it was actually two different posters, I felt an intense sense of relief. And then resorted to the ignore function. No fair to the good posters when the bad poster has a sufficiently similar name. Same case here, so into my ignore list the “beta cuck” moron went. No loss not to read his posts. Yeah, it’s easy to mix up **Derleth’s** name with **DrDeth**. I do that all of the time. No insult intended. **Derleth** is clearly the more intelligent of the two. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/92 "2017-07-15T17:35:54Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, it is simple, really. If you don’t want to be called Alt-Right, don’t use a term that in my experience, is a 100% accurate marker of being a member of that group. > > Because even if you claim that you are not one, the use of the term makes it clear that you are at very least, part of that mindset and a sympathizer. Fair enough. I won’t quibble with seeing things slightly differently than I do. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/93 "2017-07-15T18:32:11Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Dopers, > > After serious consideration, I have decided to end my time here with the Straight Dope. I may loiter now and then, but other than that I think it is time for me to move on. > > When I first found the SDMB, I was amazed at the topics being discussed and the quality of discourse. I felt like there was something to learn in every thread from someone with true insight on the matter being discussed. I grew a lot from these discussions, as the exposure to such a broad range of perspectives will tend to do for someone who is still maturing intellectually. > > The past couple years, I have been in-and-out of the forum as the general devolvement into tribal politics (exacerbated by the election of Trump) seems to leave little room for any discussion on pure intellectual grounds. But I have also noticed something far more odious. The board has become increasingly insular and incapable of entertaining viewpoints that run contrary to the general consensus. This is a leftwing discussion board, and I am center-right. I voted for Obama in ’08, Romney in ’12, and Hillary in ’16. I am not the alt-right. I vote my conscience and deliberate seriously on the views that I hold and the beliefs that I espouse. I like debating with people who hold views different than mine. I actively sought such debate on this board for several years because I felt that, despite our disagreements, we could discuss in good faith and learn a little more about the way others view the world. > > I no longer feel that such good faith exists, at least among those who more regularly frequent the Dope. What I see now are the roaming morality militias comprised of a handful of posters who feel compelled to enforce the correct group-think, and once they have decided you are the enemy, the very notion of honest debate is rendered incomprehensible. As though my disagreement could only be the result of hatred and bigotry. And they are not hesitant to label me with these pejoratives. > > It is a great shame that the forum I once considered the paragon of intellectual discourse has entrenched itself into a bubble where outside thought is seen as threatening. It is not easy voicing conservative viewpoints on this board, given the simple demographics. But I used to relish the challenge and look forward to the counter-arguments that such bright people could throw at me. Now, frankly, I no longer see the point. I don’t think the regulars here have any interest in hearing conservative views nor in rebutting them honestly. If we encounter an impasse, they see fit to ascribe ulterior motives to me and the inevitable “asshole” or “bigot” or “troll” epithets spew forth. > > I hope this trend of increasingly polarized discourse comes to an end. It started with Obama and has hit its full furor in the “fake news” age of Trump. Maybe it was just a dream that couldn’t last. Actually - fuck that - you guys fell for it and let it happen to your board. To your own detriment. If you truly believe everyone who disagrees with you is just an alt-right troll, you need to recalibrate your perspective, or else this board will lose all vestiges of openness and fully devolve into the echo chamber I sincerely fear it is headed toward. > > My final words: thank you. I still have hope for a return to the golden age. For us as Dopers, and for us as a society. > > Sincerely, > Stringbean > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Conservatives will always be vulnerable to moral grand-standing by progressives, lefties, liberals, moderates, moderate libertarians or whatever the ultra-statists wish to call themselves. This is because they have largely bought into the idea that the progressives et al. have the moral high ground. They believe that egalitarianism is a good idea, but not practical. They believe government can and should sculpt society into an ideal form, but their form is maybe a little different. They believe government should end sin and deliver salvation. These beliefs are foundational to today’s politics, at least to 95% of the politically aware. > > The progressives et al. know that calling you a racist is effective. They know that appealing to your desire for equality or homogeneity is effective. They know they can browbeat you all day long Now where’d I put that damned little violin?.. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/94 "2017-07-15T18:36:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You especially have to watch out for the worst statists of all-- the “moderate libertarians”. They are sneaky as all get out!! [Hey…](https://giphy.com/gifs/robert-de-niro-gifset-deniro-IMOH7KL8x6aC4) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/95 "2017-07-15T18:43:12Z")
Homogenization? We want everyone treated equally under the law. That is the promise of the US Constitution. But we certainly don’t want everyone to be the same! Diversity is not Homogenization. An all white christian nation would be homogenization. Amazing how some Conservatives (Trump being a master at this) project their own weaknesses and failures on others. Complaining about black people, gay people and other religions getting ‘special treatment’ merely by being allowed to exist, be treated equally under the law and being able to pursue their own happiness? Isn’t that just wanting to tamp everyone down and force people to pretend not to exist, or to acknowledge white christian mastery? Frankly, complaints that any of it makes you (generic you) ‘uncomfortable’ or you don’t want to have to explain it to your children are utter bullshit. If you have to explain something like that to your children, then you’ve failed at being a parent, because you’ve taught them lies and bigotry and now suddenly you have to explain that not everyone believes your shit. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/96 "2017-07-15T20:17:43Z")
It always cracks me up when someone makes a very very loud public declaration of Leaving The Dope®. Because, you see, you cannot have your account canceled. Ever. You can be banned, and if our recently departed **Stringbean** wanted to commit Suicide By Moderator, no doubt she could go down in flames like so many other Dopers have. This comes up every few years. Near as I can remember, you cannot actually leave. You can simply go silent. All of the posts will remain as will the status as a member. ( Don’t pay your yearly and Charter Membership will slide away of course ). All in all, not much of a flouncing off. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/97 "2017-07-15T20:19:10Z")
Welcome to the Hotel Straight Dope. You can log off any time you want. But you can never leave. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/98 "2017-07-15T20:30:37Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > ( Don’t pay your yearly and Charter Membership will slide away of course ). Even though that’s pretty much just a vanity title anymore. Mine lapsed a LONG time ago and it hasn’t affected by Dope experience at all. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/99 "2017-07-15T20:41:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But thank Og we have you around to save us from ourselves!! I have no interest in saving progressives et al. Many are too old. I will attempt to undermine their presumed moral superiority. That is what their control over everyone rests on. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wonder what it must be like being the one enlightened and aware person wandering through a world of sheep. Praise to you for continuing to try to bring wisdom to all of us dolts, despite the incredible disdain you very clearly hold for pretty much all of us. My bar is much lower than bringing wisdom. I simply try to bring self-awareness, and your case particularly is a tough nut to crack. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I saw someone in a comment section recently tell another commenter he was probably “the kind of guy who thinks calling someone a ‘statist’ is a withering insult.” > > **WillFarnaby** is not as unique as he probably thinks he is, nor (unfortunately) as unique as we wish he were. Yes, I am not an original thinker, but I never claimed to be. It’s kind of sad when people do that. They pretty much admit they no nothing of history. Statist is shorthand for a much longer description. I could switch to authoritarian if you prefer, but I somehow doubt it. > [@bobot](#): > > Nice enemy you’ve conjured up there. Sorry you need it. Would you like a kleenex? I’m confused, is there an enemy of liberty like that or not? > [@Chimera](#): > > What is really stupid about that is that if you look at the really conservative states, those are the ones trying their best to sculpt society and force people into little boxes. Of course that is why I said " They [conservatives] believe government can and should sculpt society into an ideal form, but their form is maybe a little different." If you actually think the few liberal states are not trying to do that, that is why I am trying to bring a sense of self-awareness to your type. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > You especially have to watch out for the worst statists of all-- the “moderate libertarians”. They are sneaky as all get out!! Yes. They live to be embraced by the left. Their idea of heaven is being pat on the head by a liberal for not being one of THOSE libertarians. “Oh you’re a goooood libertarian aren’t you, boy? Yes you are, yessss you are.” They speak up about something like the minimum wage: “Hey guys, you know these laws really hurt those who need help the most.” They get completely ignored and then they sign up for every other item on the progressive wish list. Lol it’s sad. Then they concoct ridiculous schemes like Universal Basic Income just so they can play bureaucrat too. > [@Chimera](#): > > Like they tried to make “Liberal” an insult. Sometimes the looks on people’s faces when they spit that out like profanity and I smile and admit that AM a Liberal is precious. Is that smile from sense of triumph for having manipulated language in such a manner as to adopt a name and use it in direct contradiction to its original purpose? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > [Hey…](https://giphy.com/gifs/robert-de-niro-gifset-deniro-IMOH7KL8x6aC4) No need. It’s like watching a cow graze. > [@Chimera](#): > > Homogenization? > > We want everyone treated equally under the law. That is the promise of the US Constitution. But we certainly don’t want everyone to be the same! Diversity is not Homogenization. An all white christian nation would be homogenization. > > Amazing how some Conservatives (Trump being a master at this) project their own weaknesses and failures on others. > > Complaining about black people, gay people and other religions getting ‘special treatment’ merely by being allowed to exist, be treated equally under the law and being able to pursue their own happiness? Isn’t that just wanting to tamp everyone down and force people to pretend not to exist, or to acknowledge white christian mastery? > > Frankly, complaints that any of it makes you (generic you) ‘uncomfortable’ or you don’t want to have to explain it to your children are utter bullshit. If you have to explain something like that to your children, then you’ve failed at being a parent, because you’ve taught them lies and bigotry and now suddenly you have to explain that not everyone believes your shit. Exhibit A ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286/100 "2017-07-15T20:53:31Z")
When it comes to politics, and whether I view someone as a meaningful contributor, it has nothing to do with the ideology. It’s all about the delivery. It’s all about whether one can demonstrate a modicum of critical thinking without behaving like a condescending ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/letter-to-the-dope/791286.md?page=6)