# Leveling patio blocks and preventing weeds in seams without herbicides
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [May 24, 2022, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994 "2022-05-24T12:26:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/1 "2022-05-24T12:26:17Z")
So I’m expanding my firepit with an already existent supply of 8"x8" blocks. I started with the easiest side.
I turned the dirt over and tried to smooth, I didn’t do the best job.
I first laid down landscaper (weed blocking) cloth and have framed the stones into place. I’m thinking of adding something like sand or diatomaceous earth (DE) to finish the leveling and fill in the small gaps that will eventually accumulate dirt and then weeds.
Will sand do the job, is there something better to use?
The other sides need to built up a bit, so using sand would hopefully solve two issues.
[ ](https://i.postimg.cc/hjmzNcQM/Firepit-expansion-22020523.jpg)
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Replacing that fence is another job, but probably one for professionals.
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/2 "2022-05-24T12:56:34Z")
Sand levelling base is the standard. Technically, a paver detail will be 4-6" of crushed aggregate stone, fabric, 1" of sand then the pavers but you can try without the aggregate base for such a small area. You can get paver edge (plastic, L-shaped edging) for the borders to keep it tight. Really depends a bit on how much traffic it’ll get or if you’ll just be setting something on it versus walking/sitting on it.
Nothing much to do for the weeds except spray them if they poke up.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/3 "2022-05-24T13:01:57Z")
Weed blocking cloth won’t affect a common source of weed growth between paver blocks, which is seeds blown into and sprouting in spaces between blocks. Use of polymeric sand is supposed to form a hard seal between blocks, but even that isn’t 100%, and needs replacement every few years.
When we had a paver patio the installation was supposed to be weed-proof, but I wound up having to burn weeds out with a propane torch on a regular basis.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/4 "2022-05-24T13:06:03Z")
I was seeing a sand/fine gravel base and then polymeric sand for the gaps and grooves. Looks like that might be the best way to go. But I take it the claims of up to 10 years is an exaggeration?
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/5 "2022-05-24T13:09:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> Weed blocking cloth won’t affect a common source of weed growth between paver blocks, which is seeds blown into and sprouting in spaces between blocks.
This is true. But I’d still put down fabric because it’ll slow the process of your compacted soil sub-base and then sand layer just becoming sandy dirt and the pavers getting out of alignment. Weeds are usually a top-down problem though.
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### Author:  [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/6 "2022-05-24T13:18:58Z")
Another vote for polymeric sand. Makes a pretty impervious joint.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/7 "2022-05-24T13:36:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> I wound up having to burn weeds out with a propane torch on a regular basis.
A buddy of mine got a backpack “flamethrower” for his birthday from his wife. The only real use he’s found for it is killing weeds between patio blocks.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/8 "2022-05-24T13:41:03Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> I was seeing a sand/fine gravel base and then polymeric sand for the gaps and grooves. Looks like that might be the best way to go. But I take it the claims of up to 10 years is an exaggeration?
We were seeing weeds sprout in the crevices within a couple of years.
It probably helps if rainwater drains off rapidly, so there isn’t a continuing source of moisture for weed growth.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/9 "2022-05-24T13:46:20Z")
No barrier under the pavers is going to be able to fully stop weeds, it’s recommended you regularly sweep the area with a broom to at least try to get ahead of seeds sneaking into the cracks, but there’s really nothing that is 100%.
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### Author:  [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/10 "2022-05-24T15:03:19Z")
I use polymetric sand on mine but it still gets weeds every year. Every year I spray the weeds (actually, it’s mostly grass) and then dig out the dead stuff and fill with polymetric sand. Don’t skip the spraying part. I did that for a few years - dug up the live weeds/grass from the roots - and it’s not worth it. Kill it first.
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/11 "2022-05-24T15:13:09Z")
Honestly, you should build up with sand or stone dust to make the pavers even with the concrete pad. You’re going to trip over that lip. No advice on weeds, though.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/20 "2022-05-24T19:00:55Z")
**This thread is about leveling patio blocks, not about herbicides.**
Take it to another thread!
And I split it off:
> [@I use Roundup {split from leveling pavers}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-use-roundup/965019):
>
> I spray the weeds with Round Up. A sand bed is a great base for landscape blocks.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/21 "2022-05-24T19:10:10Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> This thread is about leveling patio blocks, not about herbicides.
This thread is about “leveling patio blocks” AND “preventing weeds in seams.” At least that’s what the title says.
Maybe you should ask a mod to edit the title.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/22 "2022-05-24T19:10:58Z")
I’ll do that. I add without herbicides.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/23 "2022-05-24T19:16:47Z")
We just got pavers put down to replace our driveway. I paid extra for this product. So far I’m very happy with it. Dries very hard, but lets water through. A leaf blower clears it off, and it can withstand pressure washing. I’m quite confident we’ll have no weeds for at least a few years.
[https://www.azpects.com/products/easy-joint](https://www.azpects.com/products/easy-joint)
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/24 "2022-05-24T19:20:09Z")
That looks like a very easy application. All aspects of this job is a pain on the knees and back. It would be great to have an easy part.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/25 "2022-05-24T19:23:07Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> **This thread is about leveling patio blocks, not about herbicides.**
>
> Take it to another thread!
>
> And I split it off
I will repost the bulk of my remarks from [this post in the split-off thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-use-roundup/965019/2), since they had nothing to do with herbicide application:
> [@](#):
>
> You can also periodically douse the cracks with boiling water, but nothing will totally prevent weed growth. Weeds are just the name we give to pioneer and other exceptionally hardy plant species that evolved to take advantage of precisely these sorts of inhospitable conditions. […]
>
> The OP’s best strategy IMHO is to set out patio chairs that are low enough that the people sitting in them can just tweak out little sproutlings from the cracks and throw them into the firepit. You’d be surprised at how easy it is to keep a small paved area weed-free if you just get into the habit of plucking out the inevitable few bits of new growth at regular intervals.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/26 "2022-05-24T19:23:23Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> That looks like a very easy application. All aspects of this job is a pain on the knees and back. It would be great to have an easy part.
I watched the guys do it. It _looked_ very easy. I have a little left over for patching if needed, so I’ll find out for myself one day perhaps.
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### Author:  [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)
#### Post date: [May 26, 2022, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/27 "2022-05-26T08:20:47Z")
After removing your paver blocks and anything other base material covering the soil, compact the soil and lay at least 1" of a paver base - usually finely crushed stone. Compact it and then a layer of paver sand - compact it and screed (level). Lay you block - pour additional sand on top and sweep to fill paver block joints. Water the surface, allow it to dry and refill joints with sand if necessary.
Make sure you measure the depth of the area first to calculate the desired finished height of your paver block after you install your base material.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [May 26, 2022, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leveling-patio-blocks-and-preventing-weeds-in-seams-without-herbicides/964994/28 "2022-05-26T12:10:19Z")
Here is a short thread from 2006 which includes some relevant advice and anecdote.
> [@Anyone have experience with "instant" patios?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-have-experience-with-instant-patios/365209):
>
> Next month I’ll be moving into a townhouse with a small, fenced-in backyard that I hope to somehow turn into a patio. I remember seeing a couple of products in a catalog that seemed like they’d do the trick, and I found them on the Taylor Gifts website (I know, I know: Taylor Gifts isn’t known for high quality): [patio pavers](http://www.taylorgifts.com/prodetail~cat~patio~itemNo~22984C~ID~.asp), and [patio blocks](http://www.taylorgifts.com/prodetail~cat~patio~itemNo~22231B~ID~.asp). Does anyone have experience with these things? Or enough general experience to recommend/warn against this sort of thing? My intent would be to leave the…
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