# lever action rifles
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 16, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651 "2007-11-16T05:09:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/1 "2007-11-16T05:09:27Z")
I have a strong preference for lever action rifles – maybe I watched too many cowboy movies growing up. But it is frustrating that lever action rifles seem to always be ‘brush guns’ (having ballistic characteristics that make them good only to 100-150 yards) .32, 30-30, .45 etc.
Is there a reason for this? Are the shell casings for the flatter shooting calibers too long to work properly in a lever action gun?
thanks,
-rainy
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/2 "2007-11-16T05:16:47Z")
I think that lever-action rifles generally are not as strong as bolt-action rifles, so they use lower-power ammunition. Rifles with tubular magazines, such as the Winchester Model 94, cannot use Spitzer bullets, as the pointed noses might discharge the round ahead of them when recoil makes them hit the primers.
The most common lever-action seems to be the Winchester Model 94, and most of those seem to be the carbine version with the 20" barrel. There’s also a rifle version with a 24" barrel. (I have a '94 made in 1932 in .30-30 caliber, and a Model 1894 made in 1897 in .32.20.)
ETA: The Browning BLR has a box magazine, so it can use Spitzer bullets. It also uses high-power rounds such as the 7mm Rem Mag and the venerable .30-06. The Brownings have a different bolt design (rotating bolt? I don’t remember) that is stronger than the ‘traditional’ Winchester type.
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### Author:  [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/3 "2007-11-16T05:17:51Z")
Most of the issue came from the fact that the rounds are stored in the rifle in line with the bullet tip pressing against the primer of the round in front of it. Flat nose rounds are used to make sure that the entire magazine does not go off due to a dropped gun or something.
The problem with flat nosed rounds is that they have limited range. The new leveroution ammo uses a flexible ballistic tip that promises much better range and accuracy.
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### Author:  [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/4 "2007-11-16T05:26:13Z")
According to [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever-action) :
> [@](#):
>
> …lever-action firearms are also generally fed from a tubular magazine, which limits the ammunition that can be used in them. Pointed centerfire Spitzer bullets, for example, can cause explosions in a tubular magazine, as the point of each cartridge’s projectile rests on the primer of the next cartridge in the magazine.
Note: Spitzers are bullets with a flat base and pointy nose, which is what you’ll find in most every variety of high power.
> [@](#):
>
> Most lever-action designs are not as strong as bolt-action or semi-automatic designs, and as a result lever-action rifles tend to be generally found in low- and medium-pressure cartridges such as .30-30 Winchester or .44 Magnum, although the Marlin Model 1894 is available in three high-pressure magnum calibers.
Based on my experience with lever and bolt actions, both of those seem reasonable.. I have always thought storing the ammo that way is rather dangerous, and the bullet doesnt seem nearly as secure in a lever action.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/5 "2007-11-16T05:32:35Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
ETA: The Browning BLR has a box magazine, so it can use Spitzer bullets. It also uses high-power rounds such as the 7mm Rem Mag and the venerable .30-06. The Brownings have a different bolt design (rotating bolt? I don’t remember) that is stronger than the ‘traditional’ Winchester type.
[/QUOTE]
[Here it is](http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/category.asp?value=003B) (emphasis mine):
> [@](#):
>
> As a rule, lever-action aficionados have always had to trade away power and accuracy for quick handling and easy carrying. With the Browning BLR those compromises are a thing of the past. The design of the BLR is as modern as tomorrow with an aircraft-grade alloy receiver, glass-smooth rack and pinion system and **multi-lug rotating bolt that handles many of the most popular magnum cartridges** …
Edit: Or (looking at the previous post) I could’ve just looked on Wiki. :smack:
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### Author:  [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/6 "2007-11-16T08:59:45Z")
I think one of the early selling points of lever-action rifles was that they were chambered for popular pistol cartridges, allowing you to use the same ammunition in your pistol and rifle.
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### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/7 "2007-11-16T12:16:00Z")
[QUOTE=mks57]
I think one of the early selling points of lever-action rifles was that they were chambered for popular pistol cartridges, allowing you to use the same ammunition in your pistol and rifle.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, salesmen putting a positive spin on a possibly negative quality.
In early lever actions, the only thing holding the chamber closed was the shooters hand on the lever. Which limited the power of the shot. A later improvement was two locking lugs that rose as you closed the bolt and engaged slots in the top of the receiver. This provided a much stronger seal and resisted the recoil better than hand power alone. I’m working from memory of army training videos here, so I may be getting some of the terms wrong.
Incidentally, one of the drawbacks of lever actions is that in rapid fire the cycling of the lever throws off your aim and forces the shooter to take longer to acquire a target for the next shot.
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/8 "2007-11-16T12:48:56Z")
[QUOTE=Hypno-Toad]
Incidentally, one of the drawbacks of lever actions is that in rapid fire the cycling of the lever throws off your aim and forces the shooter to take longer to acquire a target for the next shot.
[/QUOTE]
They’re also very difficult to fire and reload from a prone position; you basically have to roll onto your side to work the action, or else fire from a kneeling or crouching position.
As has already been mentioned, the main reason lever-action rifles are generally in lower-powered calibres is because A) There’s a limit to what the action can actually handle, and B) Pointed bullets end-to-end in the magazine of a rifle is asking for trouble.
The BLR (and similar rifles from other manufacturers) and the Winchester Model 1895 are the only Lever-Actions I’m aware of that can handle fullbore centrefire rifle rounds like .30-06 Springfield, .308 Winchester, and .300 Winchester Magnum, and that’s because they have radically different actions to that found on a typical Model 94 Winchester.
FWIW, I’m not a huge fan of the Winchester Model 94- the gun is too light for the cartridge and kicks rather a lot more than it should when fired, IMHO.
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### Author:  [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/9 "2007-11-16T13:30:07Z")
Man you guys are a wealth of information! Thanks. As a youngster I always used to worry about the bullet nose pressed againt the primer as we’d load up in the pre-dawn hours to go deer hunting but dismissed that as silly kid-thinking as I got older. Turns out my concern had some validity! :0
I really figured that the seal on a lever and a bolt were of equal strength, but must have been wrong on that. I’ll be looking into those BLR rifles, cause I just love the way my model 94 feels as I carry it in the field.
-rainy
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/10 "2007-11-16T13:43:46Z")
[QUOTE=rainy]
Man you guys are a wealth of information! Thanks. As a youngster I always used to worry about the bullet nose pressed againt the primer as we’d load up in the pre-dawn hours to go deer hunting but dismissed that as silly kid-thinking as I got older. Turns out my concern had some validity! :0
[/quote]
It’s only an issue with spitzer (pointer) bullets; round or flat-nosed cartridges (such as .30-30 Winchester or most pistol cartridges) are fine.
> [@](#):
>
> I really figured that the seal on a lever and a bolt were of equal strength, but must have been wrong on that. I’ll be looking into those BLR rifles, cause I just love the way my model 94 feels as I carry it in the field.
A BLR handles quite differently to a Model 94- it has a different point of balance (box magazine rather than tube), amongst other things.
If you like shotguns (and what self-respecting shooter doesn’t? 🙂 ) then you might want to check out one of the IAC replicas of the [Winchester Model 1887 12ga Lever-Action Shotgun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1887). They handle really well and are a lot of fun to shoot!
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### Author:  [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/11 "2007-11-16T14:06:52Z")
You want a Winchester Model 1887 12ga Lever-Action Shotgun?!
You’ll shoot your eye out!
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### Author:  [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/12 "2007-11-16T15:00:19Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]
If you like shotguns (and what self-respecting shooter doesn’t? 🙂 )
[/QUOTE]
My SIL has the oddest shotgun I’ve ever seen. It’s a Western Auto 12 guage bolt action, with a three shell drop out magazine. That’s her turkey gun.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/13 "2007-11-16T15:06:07Z")
[Like this](http://www.survivalprimer.com/PaulsGuns/Revelation_Shotgun.htm)?
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### Author:  [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/14 "2007-11-16T16:39:36Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
[Like this](http://www.survivalprimer.com/PaulsGuns/Revelation_Shotgun.htm)?
[/QUOTE]
I had a similar model back in the 60s. It was a Mossburg in 16Ga and had an adjustable choke. 😃 Not a very good shotgun though.
I’ve handled, but not fired, the 1887 replicas. They are popular with the fellows who shoot in three gun matches of Cowboy Action Shooting.
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### Author:  [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2007, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lever-action-rifles/426651/15 "2007-11-16T17:48:36Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
[Like this](http://www.survivalprimer.com/PaulsGuns/Revelation_Shotgun.htm)?
[/QUOTE]
Why yes as a matter of fact.