# Levy barred from Libya for being Jewish, should Sarkozy have refused to go? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/levy-barred-from-libya-for-being-jewish-should-sarkozy-have-refused-to-go/653983 "2013-03-26T02:41:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/levy-barred-from-libya-for-being-jewish-should-sarkozy-have-refused-to-go/653983/61 "2013-03-29T03:30:25Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > My response is post#53. **Ramira** had a post where he/she laid out the chain of cause-and-effect she/he perceived and it was pretty rational. No, Ramira specifically blamed the story on “partisan anglophone jewish sources of the extreme zionist angles” and right-wing anglophones who wish to manipulate Jews. She then defined “extreme zionist” as advocating the expulsion of Palestinians from the territories which is quite startling since I can’t think of too many major Jewish figures who argue that. In fact, by her standards neither Avigidor Lieberman or Dov Hikind(famous doing a black voice parody of MLK’s “I have a dream speech” and endorsing the bombing of West Bank mayors by Jewish terrorists/guerillas) are “extreme zionists”. I’ve asked her to list the “Jewish sources” she’d read promoting this story who call for expelling all the Palestinians from the territories. I don’t see why that’s an unfair question and it’s not like Malthus and I see eye-to-eye on Israel as can be noted on that noxious “why are those lazy Palestinians so poor while the smart Jews are so rich”(paraphrased of course) thread. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/levy-barred-from-libya-for-being-jewish-should-sarkozy-have-refused-to-go/653983/62 "2013-03-29T04:52:14Z")
This thread is rapidly going nowhere. I agree that this comment > [@Ramira](#): > > All the claims of the barring, they come from partisan anglophone jewish sources of the extreme zionist angles and right wing anglophones who wish to sow hatreds and exploit the jews for own purposes. looks very much like an antisemitic claim that the story was concocted by Jews and foreigners. Ramira has attempted to clarify that she meant to say that all the references she found to the story in French were from sources that she deems Zionist or foreign. I have no idea whether she is correct that those sources are “extreme Zionists,” or whether she views anyone who is not anti-Israeli to be an “extreme Zionist.” However, making an issue of whether or not Ramira is antisemitic is not relevant to whether the story, as presented is accurate. Turning the thread into one more tedious exchange over who is or is not antisemitic does nothing to answer the question of the OP. And the appropriate response to the following examples of threadshitting > [@newcomer](#): > > Why do you need to ruin it for everybody? > > We know you hate Jews but why do you hate America? > [@newcomer](#): > > You are somehow under impression that facts and reason matters when it comes to little Dope games of “Label your own anti-Semite”. > > It doesn’t get any more straight than this 😃 is not to engage in more personal attacks regarding antisemitism such as > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ok, let’s see your opinion of what does and doesn’t constitute anti-Semitism. > > Is it anti-Semitic to claim 911 was due to a Jewish conspiracy(I.E. Mossad or “the Jewish lobby”)? The correct way to determine whether sources are accurate, whether Ramira’s or Ibn Warraq’s or anyone else’s, is to ask to see a list of those sources, (news outlets, blogs, etc.) and then try to determine whether those sources appear to be legitimate or whether they are all echoing a single source and whether it is legitimate. Aside from the accuracy of the claim that Levy was excluded from Libya because he is Jewish, the issue of antisemitism is no longer a topic in this thread: Ramira will not claim that the story was fabricated by or passed on by “extreme Zionists.” Other posters will refrain from harping on that original claim or basing objections to Ramira’s claim on an accusation of antisemitism. Newcomer will stop threadshitting. Stick to identifying the sources of the story and determining whether it is accurate and quit turning the discussion into personal attacks with charges of “Zionism” or “antisemitism” as the weapons. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/levy-barred-from-libya-for-being-jewish-should-sarkozy-have-refused-to-go/653983/63 "2013-03-29T18:24:42Z")
It’s not threadshitting if the thread is shit already. I was sort of “invited” by the title and Levy’s name - I’ve seen this man on Sarajevo TV in 1992. and must say I was feeling good for the first time in those terrible times. The whole OP story struck me as piece of propaganda; i.e. lies and I did not suspect for a second what Levy’s reply would be. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/F5RPWmFByUU/hqdefault.jpg "Snaga Bosne: Bernard Henri Lévy - Sarajevo juni '92") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5RPWmFByUU) /\* It’s in French and with Bosnian subtitles. He is the same guy he was 20 years ago when he said: “I’m ashamed of today’s Europe… If Europe wanted it those guys on the hills above Sarajevo would be gone in 48 hours…” Interview goes on all the while shots are fired around. Even the interviewer ducks couple of times and Levy goes on … Anyways… moot point… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/levy-barred-from-libya-for-being-jewish-should-sarkozy-have-refused-to-go/653983/64 "2013-04-01T00:50:27Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Interview goes on all the while shots are fired around. Even the interviewer ducks couple of times and Levy goes on … > … I must say I don’t remember seeing an interview like that, conducted in a matter of fact tone, but ending sat behind a low concrete wall, and including sentences like “we are guilty of…this one was close” “I believe it’s the first time that…don’t you think they’re shooting this way?” or “lower your head, lower your head…No, I believe it’s the same kind of barbarism…” “We have here people who refuse…wait…don’t stay there” all mostly towards the end). I don’t particularly like BHL, but he indeniably has some physical courage. (I mean I’ve seen interviews from a war zone, but the tone and content of this one sounded like a regular interview of some intellectual by an anchorman, but with bullets flying around. Quite weird.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/levy-barred-from-libya-for-being-jewish-should-sarkozy-have-refused-to-go/653983.md?page=3)