# Lewis Carrol (sp?) fans **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 26, 2000, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949 "2000-07-26T19:32:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TN\_hippie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TN\_hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TN_hippie)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/1 "2000-07-26T19:32:05Z")
“If it was, it would be. And if it were, it might be. But as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.” Was it Tweedledum or Tweedledee who said that? ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/2 "2000-07-26T19:36:42Z")
I dunno. sounds like tweedledee, but I’d have to whip out my copy of the book to look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/3 "2000-07-26T19:37:31Z")
> [@](#): > > “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be: but as it isn’t, it ain’t. ‘That’s logic.’ [http://uscom.com/~rrb/Alice/alice\_23.html](http://uscom.com/~rrb/Alice/alice_23.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/4 "2000-07-26T19:41:28Z")
My favorite “Alice” quote: Alice to Tweedledum & Tweedledee :“If I wasn’t real, I shouldn’t be able to cry.” ---
**Author:** ![ChrisCTP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@ChrisCTP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisCTP)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/5 "2000-07-26T20:18:32Z")
My most favorite snippet of _Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland_: > [@](#): > > Take some more tea," the March Hare said to Alice, very earnestly. > “I’ve had nothing yet,” Alice replied in an offended tone, “so I can’t take more.” > “You mean you can’t take _less_,” said the Hatter; “it’s very easy to take _more_ than nothing.” > “Nobody asked _your_ opinion,” said Alice. > “Who’s making personal remarks now?” the Hatter asked triumphantly. There is just no way to NOT love that book. Heh…come to think of it, what _else_ did Lewis Carroll write? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/6 "2000-07-26T20:42:12Z")
Try _The Hunting of the Snark._ One of the finest nonsense epics (okay, so there aren’t that many) ever written. _Phantasmagoria_ is also very good. Dover Publications has a nice, inexpensive paperback edition which includes all of Carroll’s humorous verse; it would be a bargain at three times the price. [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486206548/qid=964643867/sr=1-1/104-1306066-1016765](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486206548/qid=964643867/sr=1-1/104-1306066-1016765) ---
**Author:** ![irish\_bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ac91a4/32.png) [@irish\_bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irish_bill)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/7 "2000-07-26T20:46:03Z")
Lewis Carroll followed Alice with Through the Looking Glass, which is more Alice material. He later wrote some poetry The Haunting of the Snark (a mock heroic poem) and something called Sylvie and Bruno. I have no doubt someone intelligent and classy has a website devoted to this ‘unusual’ man. He also wrote several mathematical treatises (whatever they are). He was also a pioneer in photography. “The rule is, jam yesterday and jam to-morrow, but no jam today” ---
**Author:** ![Odieman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a87d85/32.png) [@Odieman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odieman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/8 "2000-07-26T21:11:45Z")
"The time has come the Walrus said to talk of many things, of ships and strings and sealing wax and whether pigs have wings. Jabberwocky is still one of my favorite pieces too. A while ago I went into the libray to look up the Walrus and the Carpenter. I thought it would be simple, just find Alice in Wonderland and go from there. Would you believe the library didn’t have Alice in Wonderland. In fact the entire library system had only a few copies of the abridged Alice. Strangely enough, they did have several copies of “Through the Looking Glass”.Sheesh, how do they expect kids to grow up without reading one of the classics of children (and adult) literature. Keith ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/9 "2000-07-26T23:21:53Z")
I’ve heard vague allusions here and there to the fact that Carroll was a pedophile, but nothing concrete. Is this true? ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/10 "2000-07-27T00:11:47Z")
[Was Lewis Carroll a perv?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_185.html) ---
**Author:** ![TN\_hippie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TN\_hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TN_hippie)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/11 "2000-07-27T00:19:05Z")
Now, who carried on the following conversation? “When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean…neither more nor less.” “But the question is whether you can change a word’s meaning.” “No, the question is who will be Master, that is all.” I’m sure this quote is faulty, too…but ya get the gist of it. ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/12 "2000-07-27T00:26:32Z")
Alice and Humpty Dumpty, with the Eggman taking the position that a word should mean what you mean it to, and not what some lame dictionary says, and Alice disagreeing. (Humpty’s attitude is shared by many posters on the SDMB and my Research teacher, Dr. Esturlyid.) My sig used to be a quote from _Jabberwocky_. –John ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/13 "2000-07-27T01:49:29Z")
_There’s_ glory for you! (By “glory,” I mean a good knock-down argument.) ---
**Author:** ![tubagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b77776/32.png) [@tubagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tubagirl)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/14 "2000-07-27T02:21:14Z")
\*\*\* Can you stand on your head?\*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Mamapotomus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/94ad74/32.png) [@Mamapotomus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mamapotomus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/15 "2000-07-27T02:57:49Z")
I found a really cool book a couple years back called Fantastic Alice. It’s a compilation of short stories and poems inspired by ideas or characters from Alice in Wonderland. The writing is diverse and interesting, I recommend it to any Alice fan. ---
**Author:** ![pLt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@pLt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pLt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/16 "2000-07-28T00:07:32Z")
where’s dpr? oh, he’ll like this thread. > [@](#): > > I dreamed that I stood in a shadowy court > where a snark with a glass in it’s eye > dressed in gowns band and wig > was defending a pig > on the charge of deserting it’s sty ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/17 "2000-07-29T04:39:11Z")
This also seems a fitting occasion to notice the other hard works in that poem. Humpty-Dumpty’s theory, of two meanings packed into one word like a portmanteau, seems to me the right explanation for all. For instance, take the two words “fuming” and “furious.” Make up your mind that you will say both words, but leave it unsettled which you will say first. Now open your mouth and speak. If your thoughts incline ever so little towards “fuming,” you will say “fuming-furious;” if they turn, by even a hair’s breadth, towards “furious,” you will say “furious-fuming;” but if you have the rarest of gifts, a perfectly balanced mind, you will say “frumious.” Supposing that, when Pistol uttered the well-known words– “Under which king, Bezonian? Speak or die!” Justice Shallow had felt certain that it was either William or Richard, but had not been able to settle which, so that he could not possibly say either name before the other, can it be doubted that, rather than die, he would have gasped out “Rilchiam!” ---
**Author:** ![TN\_hippie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TN\_hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TN_hippie)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/18 "2000-07-29T15:52:35Z")
Complete this poem: “Twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe…” ---
**Author:** ![Sassy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sassy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sassy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2000, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-carrol-sp-fans/26949/19 "2000-07-30T03:34:22Z")
all mimsy were the borogoves and the mome rathes outgrab Beware the Jabberwork, my son the jaws that bite, the claws that catch Beware the JubJub bird and shun the frumious banbersnatch Shall I go on… 😃