# Lewis fans: Does the resolution of THE MAGICIAN'S NEPHEW bother you? (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 24, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804 "2010-11-24T18:48:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/41 "2010-11-26T19:31:40Z")
Bother. I tried to post yesterday and it got eaten. Fairytales are based on rule-following. The rules don’t have to make sense, but they’re consistent. So saith Lewis and his literary mentors Chesterton and George MacDonald. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/42 "2010-11-26T20:04:17Z")
> [@Lissla\_Lissar](#): > > Bother. I tried to post yesterday and it got eaten. Fairytales are based on rule-following. The rules don’t have to make sense, but they’re consistent. So saith Lewis and his literary mentors Chesterton and George MacDonald. Are you using _bother_ as an interjection, or answering the question? ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/43 "2010-11-26T20:19:40Z")
Interjection. Didn’t mean to be rude. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/44 "2010-11-26T20:22:40Z")
> [@Lissla\_Lissar](#): > > Interjection. > > Didn’t mean to be rude. Oh, it wasn’t rude. Given that we’re talking about an early/mid twentieth century English author, it was both perfectly appropriate and mildly clever. 🙂 That said: Do you feel Lewis was inconsistent in letting Mabel live? ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/45 "2010-11-26T20:35:28Z")
Hmm. I don’t think so. It reads to me like a eucatastrophe- Digory does the right thing even though it’s hard, and (he thinks) means his mother will die, and is rewarded gloriously. Great good breaking through his despair. Keep in mind that I’m reading it (eternally) through a ten-year-old’s eyes. Also that I haven’t slept in eight months. 🙂 Because of the lack of sleep, it reminds me a bit of the Eagles rescuing Sam and Frodo after their hard journey. Was that stylistically appropriate? _runs for cover_ ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/46 "2010-11-26T20:39:05Z")
> [@Lissla\_Lissar](#): > > Hmm. I don’t think so. It reads to me like a eucatastrophe- Digory does the right thing even though it’s hard, and (he thinks) means his mother will die, and is rewarded gloriously. Great good breaking through his despair. Yeah. And after all, Aslan is God. I think I like the idea of God being able to do something really cool once in a while, rather than God bureaucratically quoting rules and by-laws at me. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/47 "2010-11-26T22:24:35Z")
> [@Lissla\_Lissar](#): > > Hmm. I don’t think so. It reads to me like a eucatastrophe- Digory does the right thing even though it’s hard, and (he thinks) means his mother will die, and is rewarded gloriously. Great good breaking through his despair. > Keep in mind that I’m reading it (eternally) through a ten-year-old’s eyes. Also that I haven’t slept in eight months. 🙂 > > Because of the lack of sleep, it reminds me a bit of the Eagles rescuing Sam and Frodo after their hard journey. Was that stylistically appropriate? > > _runs for cover_ I’m the _Silmarillion_ fan, not hte _Lord of the Rings_ fan. You’ll have to have that argument with someone else. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Yeah. And after all, Aslan is God. I think I like the idea of God being able to do something really cool once in a while, rather than God bureaucratically quoting rules and by-laws at me. The thing is, Aslan doesn’t follow rules for the sake of following rules, or set them just because he can. he follows and sets rules because he judges them rule to be correct. Having said that, **LL** ’s remark about eucatastrophe is partially persuasive to me, as is the notion that Aslan told Eustace what would happen because the situation was somewhat different than it was when Lucy inquired about what would happen had she not sinned. I still think it’s a lapse, though, and letting Mabel live is a mistake as well, somehow. Less satisfying. But I can understand Jack’s decision, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/48 "2010-11-26T23:57:52Z")
I love using that word- eucatastrophe. I want to make t-shirts that say: _I’m metanoia-d by your eucatastrophe_ ---
**Author:** ![Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_A_Tame_Lion)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/49 "2010-11-27T00:19:02Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > My problem with Mabel’s survival is not in-story; it’s artistic. I think Lewis erred as a writer in giving in to the wish-fulfillment ending; it doesn’t feel right. It would be as if Frodo emerged from the Ring War healthy and happy. I get that, but I think it would have been a little too heavy for what was, again we note, a children’s story. Not that the old man didn’t go ahead and kill off everyone in the world–literally, in every sense of the word–in the very next book. _Shrug._ What’re ya gonna do? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/50 "2010-11-27T00:21:30Z")
> [@Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](#): > > I get that, but I think it would have been a little too heavy for what was, again we note, a children’s story. Not that the old man didn’t go ahead and kill off everyone in the world–literally, in every sense of the word–in the very next book. _Shrug._ What’re ya gonna do? He killed everyone in Narnia and every living protagonist of the prior books except for Susan. And I have a sneaking suspicion that, though Susan was probably not on the train with the other Pevensies, she was in a sense dead in the last chapter. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/51 "2010-11-27T04:20:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > One of the more fervent LotR fans will be along shortly to argue that Sam, not Frodo, is the protagonist of that book. You mean Aragorn. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/52 "2010-11-27T04:24:31Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > He killed everyone in Narnia and every living protagonist of the prior books except for Susan. And I have a sneaking suspicion that, though Susan was probably not on the train with the other Pevensies, she was in a sense dead in the last chapter. Yes, see, that bugs me. Also people calling Digory "Eustace.’ ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2010, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/53 "2010-11-27T05:27:34Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > No, it never crossed my mind to be bothered by that. And in fact, I never noticed Aslan’s inconsistency. But since you brought it up, here’s something that always **has** bothered me. > > In **Dawn Treader** , Lucy uses a spellbook to eavesdrop on two of her schoolmates. Naturally, she hears them being catty, and is devastated. Later, Aslan tells her that the one girl really is her friend, only “She is afraid of the older girl and has said what she does not mean.” > > (Paraphrased from memory) “I don’t think I can ever forget what she said.” > > “No, you won’t.” > > “Oh, Aslan, do you think we would have gone on to be great friends all our lives if–” > > “My child, don’t you know that no one is ever told what _would have happened_?” > > That’s the inconsistency you speak of, but forget that for a sec. She said **forget** , not **forgive**. Is Aslan/Lewis’s faith consistent with “To understand all is to forgive all”? I’ve forgiven plenty of people once I heard their side of things. Surely Saint Lucy of the Wardrobe could do the same. > […] I hope I’m not being too dense here. My take on it, though, is simply that Aslan is currently agreeing that she will not forget the weakness of her friend, and is overstepping for the moment - for plot movement, time, giving wounded trust a chance to heal - the issue of forgiveness. Lucy being who she is, Aslan doubtless knows she will decide to forgive her friend, but perhaps one can forgive, truly forgive, and yet not forget. But that’s a lot to read into just a quick dialog exchange, I admit. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2010, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/54 "2010-11-27T08:22:08Z")
I think it’s a fair point to make that forgiveness doesn’t always mean forgetting. Even should Lucy and the girl in question actually have some future friendship, this event is something that will have a strong effect on how that friendship develops. Forgiveness after all means more than simply saying “Oh, don’t worry about it”. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/55 "2010-11-27T17:03:08Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > You mean Aragorn. 😛 Aragorn isn’t even a viewpoint character, and he gets much less stage time than any of the four hobbits. Someone who isn’t me should start a thread arguing about who the protagonist of LotR is. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/56 "2010-11-28T16:28:58Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > No, it never crossed my mind to be bothered by that. And in fact, I never noticed Aslan’s inconsistency. But since you brought it up, here’s something that always **has** bothered me. > > In **Dawn Treader** , Lucy uses a spellbook to eavesdrop on two of her schoolmates. Naturally, she hears them being catty, and is devastated. Later, Aslan tells her that the one girl really is her friend, only “She is afraid of the older girl and has said what she does not mean.” > > (Paraphrased from memory) “I don’t think I can ever forget what she said.” > > “No, you won’t.” > > “Oh, Aslan, do you think we would have gone on to be great friends all our lives if–” > > “My child, don’t you know that no one is ever told what _would have happened_?” > > That’s the inconsistency you speak of, but forget that for a sec. She said **forget** , not **forgive**. Is Aslan/Lewis’s faith consistent with “To understand all is to forgive all”? I’ve forgiven plenty of people once I heard their side of things. Surely Saint Lucy of the Wardrobe could do the same. Also, everyone should remember that when Aslan said that, Lucy had maybe 3 more years to live. Would it have been kinder for Aslan to say “Lucy, my child. ‘great friends all our lives’ means about 3 more years for you. You will not find it in your heart in those three years before you die to forgive and rebuild your friendship”? Much better for Aslan to say “Better not to speculate” in fancy language. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/57 "2010-11-28T16:31:24Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Also, everyone should remember that when Aslan said that, Lucy had maybe 3 more years to live. Would it have been kinder for Aslan to say “Lucy, my child. ‘great friends all our lives’ means about 3 more years for you. You will not find it in your heart in those three years before you die to forgive and rebuild your friendship”? > > Much better for Aslan to say “Better not to speculate” in fancy language. As I recall, Lewis did not envision the writing of the latter four books when he wrote the first three. Thus, I doubt he knew Lucy was going to die at 16. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/58 "2010-11-28T16:40:23Z")
The question isn’t “What did Lewis know and when did he know it”, it’s “Did the resoluotion of Magician’s Nephew” seem like a cop-out to you" and for me, it didn’t because of my reasoning above. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/59 "2010-11-29T23:11:12Z")
I agree with **Lissla Lissar**. It’s a well-earned ending for Diggory, and a bittersweet one for those of us who couldn’t earn a similar ending no matter how much we wished it to be so. (Obviously my feelings on this are skewed greatly by the early death of my own mom. I wept at the end of TMN when I first read it in my early 20s, and still weep, thinking about it.) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804/60 "2010-11-30T17:47:23Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I agree with **Lissla Lissar**. It’s a well-earned ending for Diggory, and a bittersweet one for those of us who couldn’t earn a similar ending no matter how much we wished it to be so. > > (Obviously my feelings on this are skewed greatly by the early death of my own mom. I wept at the end of TMN when I first read it in my early 20s, and still weep, thinking about it.) TMN was comfort food for me in the wake of my mother’s death, particularly since her name was Mabel as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lewis-fans-does-the-resolution-of-the-magicians-nephew-bother-you-spoilers/561804.md?page=2)