# LGBT Klingons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377 "2013-11-08T02:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/41 "2013-11-09T16:55:26Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Gay characters (or rather the lack there of) has been [a point of contention in Star Trek for over twenty years now.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_in_Star_Trek#LGBT_in_Star_Trek) IMO I don’t see it being realistic to imagine a gay Klingon given their cultural & social attitudes towards gender roles. A ‘butch’ lesbian female maybe, if it contributed to her being a fearless warrior. But a ‘femmy’ male Klingon? Would get sacrificed at a young age. Be like a gay Predator… I went to a WorldCon in Chicago many years ago. During the costume contest and display, one character was a Klingon from the Mirror Universe. So, if Federation people from our universe were tough and fascist, what would Klingons be like in the Mirror? Out onto the stage skipped a Klingon from the Imperial Floral Ship _Dimples_. It was a standard Klingon outfit but made of silk and satin, and colored pink and purple. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/42 "2013-11-10T18:16:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, however Klingon homosexuality expresses, we can be sure it’s honourable and fierce and warlike and honourable… > [@Frodo](#): > > You said “honourable” twice… > [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > We like honour. “Honour”: Klingon slang for “semen”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/43 "2013-11-11T02:55:26Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I went to a WorldCon in Chicago many years ago. During the costume contest and display, one character was a Klingon from the Mirror Universe. > > So, if Federation people from our universe were tough and fascist, what would Klingons be like in the Mirror? > > Out onto the stage skipped a Klingon from the Imperial Floral Ship _Dimples_. It was a standard Klingon outfit but made of silk and satin, and colored pink and purple. “Klingons! It is your duty to adorn the Empire!” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/44 "2013-11-11T03:15:12Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > There’s the original Trill episode from TNG, where Crusher’s new love interest gets a female host, and wants to continue the relationship, and the DS9 episode where Dax hooks up with a former lover, now in a female host. Interesting to note that the huge stigma in the Dax episode was not that it was a same-sex relationship, but that it was a previous-host relationship, which is verboten. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/45 "2013-11-11T08:21:46Z")
The hang up people have about homosexuality comes from the Judaeo-Christian-Muslim religions. Not all gays act feminine and in our own world history, you had eras when being gay was perfectly acceptable. To such an extent that even straight people would have had gay experiences. Think of the Greeks and Alexander the Great. I can imagine that it could be something similar with the Klingons. Months if not years on a ship with a male to female ratio leaning heavily towards the male. If it’s the norm like it was for the Greeks, it wouldn’t be a big deal, and there wouldn’t necessarily mean that they would have to act feminine, especially when you consider how unfeminine, (compared to humans) Klingon females were. So, in my opinion, yes it was likely normal, but not in the human sense. The Klingons would have had more of the B in LGBT. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/46 "2013-11-11T14:54:09Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > The hang up people have about homosexuality comes from the Judaeo-Christian-Muslim religions. Not all gays act feminine and in our own world history, you had eras when being gay was perfectly acceptable. To such an extent that even straight people would have had gay experiences. Think of the Greeks and Alexander the Great. Well, Alexander’s relationship with Hephaestion was unusual, because they were both the same age. The only socially acceptable same-sex relationship in classical Greece was between an adult man (the _erastes)_ and a boy past puberty but too young to grow a beard (the _eromenos)._ (Greek pederasty was an educational institution – the elder lover was expected to be the younger’s role-model and mentor. And there was a strict no-penetration rule, much honored in the breach I have no doubt.) Homosexuality between adults was considered, not immoral, but ridiculous. Of course, no one was going to tell Alexander that! ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/47 "2013-11-11T15:22:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > a strict no-penetration rule, much honored in the breach I see what you did there… ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/48 "2013-11-11T17:23:06Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > As it is, why would an alien race have the same idea of sexuality and social norms as humans do? You might as well as if there are Turkish Klingons. Or Jewish ones. I mean then they just become Humans with bad skin conditions. > > One of the few things I liked about _Enterprise_ was the willingness to deal with alien species having very different social norms, structure and ideals. Not just modifications of human ones, radically different one. Well, there’s the rub. This is Star Trek we’re talking about; 95% of the time, the aliens _are_ just humans with bad skin conditions. So, it’s really not inappropriate to assume that they think more-or-less like humans, and speculate accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/49 "2013-11-11T17:38:47Z")
This whole thread makes the baby Kahless cry. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/50 "2013-11-11T17:46:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, Alexander’s relationship with Hephaestion was unusual… Wait. Worf’s son was gay? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/51 "2013-11-11T21:43:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wait. Worf’s son was gay? Well, he sure did Wesley it up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/52 "2013-11-11T23:06:08Z")
The only Klingons I can think of that might be gay are the [Duras sisters](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Duras_sisters). It’s very tenuous, but they did refuse to marry, ostensibly to avoid dishonoring their family by taking on a husband of lower status. They definitely come across as a type of feminist, as they want to be warriors in the same right as men, and willingly control their male heirs in order to keep power. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/53 "2013-11-12T00:25:46Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Gay characters (or rather the lack there of) has been [a point of contention in Star Trek for over twenty years now.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_in_Star_Trek#LGBT_in_Star_Trek) IMO I don’t see it being realistic to imagine a gay Klingon given their cultural & social attitudes towards gender roles. A ‘butch’ lesbian female maybe, if it contributed to her being a fearless warrior. But a ‘femmy’ male Klingon? Would get sacrificed at a young age. Be like a gay Predator… > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Are those the ones with electricity powers? That would seem logical… ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/54 "2013-11-12T21:53:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Jewish Klingons? Is gak Kosher? For more of this (not _Star Trek_ but SF) see Robert Silverberg’s wonderful “The Dybbuk of Mazel Tov IV.” “‘Show me in the Torah where it says an alien cannot be Jewish!’” Gagh are best eaten live. That’s not even in accordance with the laws of Noah. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/55 "2013-11-13T17:44:05Z")
Also, see Harlan Ellison’s story, “I’m Looking for Kadak”, for a hilarious story about Jewish aliens. > **[Harlan Ellison](https://books.google.com/books?id=XvaIuzLV41gC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=harlan%2Bellison%2Bi%27m%2Blooking%2Bfor%2Bkadak&source=bl&ots=6rPAQoGYDi&sig=vun6Bzy5sHMD15F012Gqk8vQiuA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JLmDUv3GM6eqyAHhrIDQAg&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=harlan%20ellison%20i'm%20looking%20for%20kadak&f=false)** ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/56 "2013-11-13T21:56:06Z")
This adds a whole new meaning to “Looking for par’mach in all the wrong places…” ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377/57 "2013-11-14T02:17:06Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Also, see Harlan Ellison’s story, “I’m Looking for Kadak”, for a hilarious story about Jewish aliens. > > [Harlan Ellison: The Edge of Forever - Ellen Weil, Gary K. Wolfe - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=XvaIuzLV41gC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=harlan+ellison+i'm+looking+for+kadak&source=bl&ots=6rPAQoGYDi&sig=vun6Bzy5sHMD15F012Gqk8vQiuA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JLmDUv3GM6eqyAHhrIDQAg&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=harlan%20ellison%20i'm%20looking%20for%20kadak&f=false) I always can’t help but feel that Star Trek’s Bajorans were meant to be the ‘space Jews’… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-klingons/673377.md?page=2)