# LGBT Tolerance in Religious America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782 "2018-01-03T03:03:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/61 "2018-01-04T05:28:18Z")
There are voices raised in support of LGBT rights in almost every Christian denomination. Just because those who fight aren’t getting major media coverage–the “megaphone” I think Czarcasm was referring to–doesn’t mean they’re not fighting hard. Change happens from within. There are a lot of people within these denominations who are fighting for that change, and they deserve to have their fight recognized, whether mainstream media gives it a lot of air time or not. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/62 "2018-01-04T05:50:09Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > And if we agree they are not, what next? I may have mentioned a few things in this thread-have a look. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/63 "2018-01-04T06:05:10Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > An affirming policy means much more than “welcoming” LGBTQ+ people. It means that the church will ordain, hire, marry and baptize LGBTQ+ people. The RCC does all that and I wouldn’t call it queer-friendly. Granted, the baptism part tends to take place before the recipient is of an age to begin dating. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/64 "2018-01-04T06:58:46Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I’m glad they’re discussing it. I may be wrong, but I think the OP is asking about churches in the U.S. I hope so, as the discussion on the [United Methodist website](http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/conferences-reject-churchs-stance-on-gays) that said > > {quote from UMC website} > > I’m impressed. As you can probably imagine, in the U.S., views on homosexuality in the UMC vary regionally. In the North and West, a lot of the “regional conferences” that are mentioned in that article have come out against the UMC’s current stance on homosexuality, and many congregations are becoming Reconciling Congregations, as mine has. But, there are a lot of of UMC churches in the conservative Southeast, and the “Good News Caucus” mentioned in that article is representative of those churches, and has been among those voices fighting hard to keep that language in the Book of Discipline. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/65 "2018-01-04T10:35:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And all this means…what? Are you saying that if they had both been Christian lesbians there would have been no problem? I dont know. It never got that far because one of them admitted she only had gone to church to please her partner. But you didnt answer my question. Just what makes a church “tolerant” or “bigoted”? My church says sin is sin. We dont turn anyone away and being gay isnt mentioned but what IS mentioned is living your life according to God’s word and living a life that brings glory to him. Being a Christian is not just like joining a club where you go shopping for clubs and join the one with the best deal. Can a person be gay and be a Christian? I’m not sure. That is up to God. But what I do know is God speaks to all of us and shows us what the sins are in our lives. Recently at our church a woman, who was living with her boyfriend, decided to leave him because 1. he wasnt a Christian and 2. he didnt want to get married and she wanted a Christian husband. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/66 "2018-01-04T14:38:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [According to this very recent article,](http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/01/01/none-of-americas-100-largest-churches-affirm-lgbt-people/?utm_source=MOBFB) of the 100 largest churches in America, the number that affirm LGBT people are a whopping…zero. > Another disturbing statistic is that, of the 537 largest churches they found info about, only 90 have been scored as affirming. Now, people may claim that they don’t represent “true” Christianity, and/or that their own particular religious institution affirms LGBT issues to a great degree. This is fine and dandy…but is it enough? Take another look at the stats _and the quotes_ from established religious leaders-is the fact that your own hands are clean supposed to be reassuring? > I’m thinking maybe not. Several mainline Christian denominations perform gay marriages. The fact that mega churches populated by evangelicals are homophobic, says little about Christianity as a whole. A lot of mega churches are mildly racist too or at least seem very comfortable with racists in their ranks. You are never going to get everyone to accept LGBT, there are still people at those churches that think that Catholics are the devil. Its enough for now. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/67 "2018-01-04T15:20:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Several mainline Christian denominations perform gay marriages. > > The fact that mega churches populated by evangelicals are homophobic, says little about Christianity as a whole. A lot of mega churches are mildly racist too or at least seem very comfortable with racists in their ranks. > > You are never going to get everyone to accept LGBT, there are still people at those churches that think that Catholics are the devil. Its enough for now. I have said nothing about getting those churches to accept LGBT. Please re-read my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/68 "2018-01-04T15:28:18Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I dont know. It never got that far because one of them admitted she only had gone to church to please her partner. > > But you didnt answer my question. Just what makes a church “tolerant” or “bigoted”? > > My church says sin is sin. We dont turn anyone away and being gay isnt mentioned but what IS mentioned is living your life according to God’s word and living a life that brings glory to him. Being a Christian is not just like joining a club where you go shopping for clubs and join the one with the best deal. > > Can a person be gay and be a Christian? I’m not sure. That is up to God. But what I do know is God speaks to all of us and shows us what the sins are in our lives. Recently at our church a woman, who was living with her boyfriend, decided to leave him because 1. he wasnt a Christian and 2. he didnt want to get married and she wanted a Christian husband. Another story that doesn’t pertain to the topic. Skip these stories and just say what you want to say. > [@](#): > > My church says sin is sin. We dont turn anyone away and being gay isnt mentioned but what IS mentioned is living your life according to God’s word and living a life that brings glory to him. This sounds a lot like “Now, I’m not going to say that gays are sinners, but we don’t turn away sinners and we don’t turn away gays, so I’ll let you do the math. Hint hint, wink wink”. If I am interpreting this wrong, just say so. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/69 "2018-01-04T15:35:33Z")
I see this as a golden opportunity for LGBTs to kick all such organized superstitions to the curb and join the real world in which there are no skygods or superbeings. I guess it’s possible for atheists to be homophobes too but I’ve never met one. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/70 "2018-01-04T15:41:00Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I see this as a golden opportunity for LGBTs to kick all such organized superstitions to the curb and join the real world in which there are no skygods or superbeings. I guess it’s possible for atheists to be homophobes too but I’ve never met one. Are there any gay gods out there to worship? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/71 "2018-01-04T15:48:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I have said nothing about getting those churches to accept LGBT. Please re-read my posts. If the point isn’t change then what exactly is your point? Is it just “boohoo not everyone likes gay people?” ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/72 "2018-01-04T15:51:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If the point isn’t change then what exactly is your point? And what exactly is the Great Debate. This is a rant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/73 "2018-01-04T15:55:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If the point isn’t change then what exactly is your point? Is it just “boohoo not everyone likes gay people?” The point of this thread has been explained more than once, and the last sentence in your thread leads me to believe that repeating myself would be a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/74 "2018-01-04T16:02:42Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I can see you’re deeply outraged by megachurches and their homophobic stance. I suggested this get moved to IMHO because it seems to me you’re expressing that outrage more than you are proposing a debatable topic. Perhaps you can clarify what specific, debatable topic you’re proposing. Please leave forum changes to the moderators. If you strongly feel a thread is in the wrong forum, report a post and suggest a forum change via that method. Cheers, RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/75 "2018-01-04T16:19:27Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > As you can probably imagine, in the U.S., views on homosexuality in the UMC vary regionally. In the North and West, a lot of the “regional conferences” that are mentioned in that article have come out against the UMC’s current stance on homosexuality, and many congregations are becoming Reconciling Congregations, as mine has. But, there are a lot of of UMC churches in the conservative Southeast, and the “Good News Caucus” mentioned in that article is representative of those churches, and has been among those voices fighting hard to keep that language in the Book of Discipline. There is also the Anglican/Episcopalian schism, as noted [here,](http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_epis13.htm) that has been ongoing since 2005: > [@](#): > > In mid-2005-MAR, the Bishops of the denomination held a six-day retreat near Houston, TX. They produced a Covenant Statement in which they announced two decisions: > > - They have imposed a one-year ban on the approval of new bishops. This will continue until the 2006 General Convention in Columbus, OH. They said that this “extraordinary action” was needed to ease the crisis within the Anglican Communion after the election of Bishop Robinson – a gay man in a committed relationship – as bishop of the Diocese of New Hampshire. > - They also promised to not authorize “public rites” for the blessing of same-sex couples for at least one year. They did not ban such ceremonies held in private. . The problem has been snowballing ever since, and in some cases churches have separated from the main body, as described [in this article from a couple of years ago.](http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/anglicans-communion-on-the-brink-of-formal-schism) ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/76 "2018-01-04T16:32:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This sounds a lot like “Now, I’m not going to say that gays are sinners, but we don’t turn away sinners and we don’t turn away gays, so I’ll let you do the math. Hint hint, wink wink”. If I am interpreting this wrong, just say so. It sounds to me like, “Of course gays are sinners. We’re all sinners. Try to be a better person, mind your own business, and judge not, lest ye be judged.” ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/77 "2018-01-04T16:34:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The problem has been snowballing ever since, and in some cases churches have separated from the main body… Because of the issue of LGBT acceptance in the church. Isn’t that the type of protest that you want? That isn’t at a level of protest you agree with? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/78 "2018-01-04T16:35:52Z")
In the second post Presbyterians are mentioned as being affirming of LGBT rights, but I am uncertain if the 5,600,00 members mentioned include the Presbyterian Church in America, the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, all of which condemn same-sex sexual behavior as incompatible with Biblical morality. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/79 "2018-01-04T16:38:50Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Because of the issue of LGBT acceptance in the church. > > Isn’t that the type of protest that you want? That post and the more recent post about Presbyterians were made to point out that the numbers in post #2 that supposedly affirm LGBT rights may not be as high as they first appear. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782/80 "2018-01-04T16:42:43Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Depends upon what you mean by “tolerance” and “accepting”. > > From what I see the OP is stating that unless a church has it in writing in their bylaws, then that church is NOT “accepting”. If I am wrong, please clarify. Just what is an “accepting” church? > > I go to a pretty conservative church and I’ve NEVER seen a gay person turned away at the door nor even heard it mentioned. Would you mind telling us what denomination your church is, or at least give us their official stance on LGBT rights? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbt-tolerance-in-religious-america/805782.md?page=5)