# LGBTQ rights going forward? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219 "2016-11-09T15:39:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/1 "2016-11-09T15:39:30Z")
I know there are dozens of thread about what happens next, and LGBTQ rights aren’t on the top of most peoples list, but with Trump in the WH & the R’s in control of both houses of Congress, I can’t help but be concern. What, if anything, could be reversed or repeal?😕☹ Thank You ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/2 "2016-11-09T15:41:20Z")
> [@Foggy](#): > > I know there are dozens of thread about what happens next, and LGBTQ rights aren’t on the top of most peoples list, but with Trump in the WH & the R’s in control of both houses of Congress, I can’t help but be concern. > > What, if anything, could be reversed or repeal?😕☹ > > Thank You Nothing until the supreme court gets seated with its newest member. At that point, pretty much all civil rights fought for over the last 60 years are fair game. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/3 "2016-11-09T20:55:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Nothing until the supreme court gets seated with its newest member. > > At that point, pretty much all civil rights fought for over the last 60 years are fair game. I don’t think that’s true, only because they’ll be replacing Scalia. If one of the five who formed the Obergefell majority resigns or dies, though…:eek: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/4 "2016-11-09T20:58:24Z")
Trump is not overtly, (nor, as far as I know, covertly), anti LGBTQ. He played a bit of that for the Evangelicals whom he hoped to woo for votes, but I do not recall him actually making a serious issue of overturning any current court decisions or legislation. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/5 "2016-11-09T21:00:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Trump is not overtly, (nor, as far as I know, covertly), anti LGBTQ. He played a bit of that for the Evangelicals whom he hoped to woo for votes, but I do not recall him actually making a serious issue of overturning any current court decisions or legislation. Actually that’s one of the problems he has with Muslim immigrants is that sharia law is anti-lgbtq ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/6 "2016-11-09T21:01:13Z")
I should add, I remain optimistic that it’s too late to somehow undo Obergefell. What are they going to do, un-marry people? And with public sentiment having shifted so drastically on the issue, I don’t think there’s the political will for it. But many other issues around LGBTQ rights are still up in the air. ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/7 "2016-11-09T21:06:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Trump is not overtly, (nor, as far as I know, covertly), anti LGBTQ. He played a bit of that for the Evangelicals whom he hoped to woo for votes, but I do not recall him actually making a serious issue of overturning any current court decisions or legislation. He doesn’t have to do anything himself. He just has to let his “advisors” pick out the next couple of supreme court justices, and there you go. He may not be personally hostile to LGBTQ people, but I doubt that he actually cares enough about them to do anything to ensure their rights, either. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/8 "2016-11-09T21:06:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Trump is not overtly, (nor, as far as I know, covertly), anti LGBTQ. He played a bit of that for the Evangelicals whom he hoped to woo for votes, but I do not recall him actually making a serious issue of overturning any current court decisions or legislation. I don’t expect Trump to _personally_ pursue an anti-LGBTQ agenda (although I’m a lot less sure of that than I would be with Clinton). But he’s promised to appoint conservative Justices. Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Anthony Kennedy are both in their 80’s. [Edited to add: and Stephen Breyer is 78] If one dies and is replaced with another Scalia, it’s bad news the next time an LGBTQ-rights case makes it to the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/9 "2016-11-09T21:08:13Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Actually that’s one of the problems he has with Muslim immigrants is that sharia law is anti-lgbtq And that is different from “religious freedom” laws that are anti-LGBTQ how? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/10 "2016-11-09T21:10:22Z")
> [@](#): > > LGBTQ rights going forward? Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/11 "2016-11-09T21:11:19Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Actually that’s one of the problems he has with Muslim immigrants is that sharia law is anti-lgbtq And why do you believe that part of what he said? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/12 "2016-11-09T21:17:44Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > He doesn’t have to do anything himself. He just has to let his “advisors” pick out the next couple of supreme court justices, and there you go. He may not be personally hostile to LGBTQ people, but I doubt that he actually cares enough about them to do anything to ensure their rights, either. There will be a lot of calls for a constitutional amendment outlawing homosexuality. Those calls may well be answered; Trump may not care personally, but he does need allies in order to accomplish all his revenge and personal-enrichment schemes. Congress will cooperate because they’ll be getting what they want, and the states will be happy to ratify. Buy stock now in ‘conversion therapy’ companies. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/13 "2016-11-09T21:20:32Z")
I don’t think Trump cares one way or the other about the LGBT community, other than whether or not they can make him money. But Pence on the other hand, hates them. And Pence will be effectively in charge of domestic affairs, including nominating people who will make sure his agenda is followed. Trump will be busy attending TV shows and rallies. Look to Pence for where policy is going to go. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/14 "2016-11-09T21:53:55Z")
Though SSM and certain federal benefits questions were addressed by the Obergefell and Windsor cases Kennedy did a great disservice to the LGBT community by failing to address some basic issues normally addressed in discrimination cases. To quote myself from [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19330507&postcount=14) in [this old thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=792997): > [@Iggy](#): > > > [@DSeid](#): > > > > That was, as I understand it, the great significance of the Supreme Court Ruling in Windsor: it made sexual orientation a full-fledged protected class. > > Uh. No. Not it didn’t. And that is a point of criticism of the Windsor decision by some analysts. Justice Kennedy wrote in flowery prose about dignity of a marriage but did not write that sexual orientation is a protected class. In doing so the Court used a new analysis that bypassed long held methods of evaluating discrimination claims. > > From Boston University Law Review (pdf link): > > AFTER THE TIERS: WINDSOR, CONGRESSIONAL POWER TO ENFORCE EQUAL PROTECTION, AND THE CHALLENGE OF POINTILLIST CONSTITUTIONALISM > WILLIAM D. ARAIZA∗ > > > [@](#): > > > > The Supreme Court’s June 2013 opinion in United States v. Windsor is remarkable for its bypassing of standard equal protection doctrine. In striking down section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act as unconstitutional discrimination against gays and lesbians, Windsor failed to broach the question whether sexual orientation constitutes a suspect class; indeed, it failed even to perform the “fit” analysis that doctrine demands. Instead, the Court examined the statute and accompanying legislative materials and concluded that section 3 violated the Equal Protection Clause’s core command that government action not be based on animus against a disfavored group. > > … > > > > Windsor, by abjuring suspect class and even “fit” analysis, undermines the Court’s approach to the enforcement power. Going forward, expect that this failure to clearly state LGBT is a protected class subject to strict scrutiny will be picked apart. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/15 "2016-11-09T22:06:00Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > There will be a lot of calls for a constitutional amendment outlawing homosexuality. Wanna place a wager on this? Say $100. If so, I am game though we need to ensure there are clear rules. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/16 "2016-11-09T22:07:41Z")
[The short version is it doesn’t look good](https://thinkprogress.org/trump-pence-transgender-students-aa32ee93cdb7#.hh30f5ggt), Pence has driven home that they’ll work to undo any protections they can, starting with Obama’s executive order protecting trans students. Also, very recently trans people were finally able to relatively easily update their social security and passport gender marker and name with only a letter from their doctor. It’s not perfect and requires some obnoxious documentation redundancy, but it’s overall pretty simple. This could easily and quickly be made worse than it was, or even impossible, under a Trump/Pence presidency. We’re talking about a veep who actually believes you can electroshock the gay out of people. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/17 "2016-11-09T22:29:49Z")
I’ve had two of my transgender friends express concern and one put on suicide watch. The gains of the LGBT movement have been almost exclusively in the judicial and executive branches. That’s all going away. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/18 "2016-11-09T22:33:55Z")
I think for LGB, its not going backwards. Just like after Johnson enacted Civil Rights, he was succeeded by 8 years of Republicans, 4 years of Carter, and 12 more years of Republicans. Blacks’ place in the nation, both socially and economically, continued to improve. There are states where gay rights are popular [that voted Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States#By_state_.2F_federal_district) but went Obama twice. I do think that the drop-the-T movement will gain steam; there’s more division than people think over it. Trump’s victory may mean its OK to express dissent about transgenderism without being labeled as evil. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/19 "2016-11-09T22:45:09Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I do think that the drop-the-T movement will gain steam; there’s more division than people think over it. Trump’s victory may mean its OK to express dissent about transgenderism without being labeled as evil. You can disagree with someone’s right to be trans without being evil. There are ways. You just can’t do that without being a bigot, 'cause that’s kind the definition. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/20 "2016-11-09T23:11:14Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > There will be a lot of calls for a constitutional amendment outlawing homosexuality. Those calls may well be answered; Trump may not care personally, but he does need allies in order to accomplish all his revenge and personal-enrichment schemes. Congress will cooperate because they’ll be getting what they want, and the states will be happy to ratify. Congress couldn’t even give Bush his marriage amendment a decade ago. I think people underestimate the capacity of a society to backslide on social equality issues (look at a list of black senators or governors), but support for an amendment banning homosexuality is not going to be there any time soon. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219.md?page=2)