# LGBTQ rights going forward? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219 "2016-11-09T15:39:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/21 "2016-11-09T23:57:48Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Wanna place a wager on this? Say $100. > If so, I am game though we need to ensure there are clear rules. > Slee I can’t see how clear rules could help, here. How could a wager could be practical, given that I said only “a lot of calls for”?–the Internet should still be up and running for a couple of months at least, and there are already plenty of people posting on it that as homosexual conduct was unlawful throughout the entire USA in the 1950s, there would be good precedent for going back to that situation. You might as well just mail me the money. If your issue is that in my post I said “homosexuality” instead of “homosexual conduct”–sure, I’ll concede that any proposed constitutional amendment–designed to bring the USA back to 1950s status as a whole rather than piecemeal–is more likely to include the word ‘conduct’ than not. But then again, Pence et al are scarcely mental giants. They may not see the distinction between conduct and status. But as far as constitutional amendments are concerned, Pence and his allies might want to do something along the lines of Colorado’s “Amendment 2”: > [@](#): > > On November 3, 1992, Colorado voters approved Amendment 2 (“Amendment 2” or “the amendment”), a referendum amending the state constitution) This amendment rescinds state and local laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and prevents the enactment of any further legal protections on this basis. It repeals Colorado laws and policies, as well as local laws in Denver, Boulder and Aspen, that prohibit discrimination against homosexuals.’ It also makes it impossible for Colorado citizens to seek legislation, executive policies or judicial determinations protecting homosexuals from discrimination in any state or local forum, regardless of the merits of, or need for, such legislation, policies or determinations. [http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1986&context=bclr](http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1986&context=bclr) That one didn’t fare well. But we are now living in a nation in which the Presidency, House, Senate, and soon (after Trump’s first appointment) the Supreme Court are all held by right-wingers. A new amendment should have fairly clear sailing. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/22 "2016-11-10T00:10:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You can disagree with someone’s right to be trans without being evil. There are ways. You just can’t do that without being a bigot, 'cause that’s kind the definition. maybe you should read [this](http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-leftist-political-corr): > [@](#): > > A lot of people think there are only two genders—boy and girl. Maybe they’re wrong. Maybe they should change that view. Maybe it’s insensitive to the trans community. Maybe it even flies in the face of modern social psychology. But people think it. Political correctness is the social force that holds them in contempt for that, or punishes them outright. > > If you’re a leftist reading this, you probably think that’s stupid. You probably can’t understand why someone would get so bent out of shape about being told their words are hurtful. You probably think it’s not a big deal and these people need to get over themselves. Who’s the delicate snowflake now, huh? you’re probably thinking. **I’m telling you: your failure to acknowledge this miscalculation and adjust your approach has delivered the country to Trump.** ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/23 "2016-11-10T00:16:58Z")
It’s interesting that voters just voted in a rightward President and now there’s a conservative President with a mostly conservative Congress, yet the country has been moving leftward on social issues, especially for gays, for a few years now. Perhaps not a lot will happen that will hurt LGBTQ rights. It’s hard to say, though it’s likely the battle over transgender rights will have progress stalled because gender fluidity seems to be a real issue of contention among conservative types ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/24 "2016-11-10T00:31:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You can disagree with someone’s right to be trans without being evil. There are ways. You just can’t do that without being a bigot, 'cause that’s kind the definition. if I object to [this kind of thing](https://www.facebook.com/GayStarNews/photos/a.213627055380286.51365.166622430080749/1180409382035377/?type=3&pnref=story), am I a “bigot?” I’ve been attacked by people like you, and particularly iiandyiiii, for expressing my fear that someday, saying that I would never date a transgender woman would be considered bigoted and evil. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/25 "2016-11-10T00:39:18Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’ve had two of my transgender friends express concern and one put on suicide watch. The gains of the LGBT movement have been almost exclusively in the judicial and executive branches. That’s all going away. Should judges be at the forefront of changing substantive policy? This post more or less acknowledges that judges are not simply interpreting existing law: they are creating substantive new law. You understandably want the progress, but do you care how you get it? Or from another angle: you’ve handed judges all this power, and now Trump gets to appoint judges for four or eight years. Does that change your idea of how much power we should hand to unelected judges with lifetime tenure? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/26 "2016-11-10T00:44:51Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I can’t see how clear rules could help, here. How could a wager could be practical, given that I said only “a lot of calls for”?–the Internet should still be up and running for a couple of months at least, and there are already plenty of people posting on it that as homosexual conduct was unlawful throughout the entire USA in the 1950s, there would be good precedent for going back to that situation. You might as well just mail me the money. Who said, “Congress will cooperate because they’ll be getting what they want, and the states will be happy to ratify?” Was that you? > [@](#): > > But as far as constitutional amendments are concerned, Pence and his allies might want to do something along the lines of Colorado’s “Amendment 2”: > > That one didn’t fare well. But we are now living in a nation in which the Presidency, House, Senate, and soon (after Trump’s first appointment) the Supreme Court are all held by right-wingers. A new amendment should have fairly clear sailing. Amendment 2 was overturned by the US Supreme Court, which would of course be powerless to overturn a similar amendment to the US Constitution. So what, specifically, are you predicting? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/27 "2016-11-10T00:51:02Z")
It looks like he is predicting that Trump will nominate and seat one or two very socially conservative judges to the court who he know will uphold the constitutionality of an Amendment 2-like, uh, amendment before the process actually starts. Not that I agree with him that “the states will” necessarily “be happy to ratify”, but I think that’s what he’s saying above. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/28 "2016-11-10T00:56:09Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > It looks like he is predicting that Trump will nominate and seat one or two very socially conservative judges to the court who he know will uphold the constitutionality of an Amendment 2-like, uh, amendment before the process actually starts. > > Not that I agree with him that “the states will” necessarily “be happy to ratify”, but I think that’s what he’s saying above. So he’s saying there could be a STATE amendment like Colorado’s and this time the Romer v. Evans votes would not be there? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/29 "2016-11-10T01:19:01Z")
I think (not sure) he’s talking about a Constitutional amendment, with the expectation that Trump and his allies will control all branches of federal government and pretty much be able to overcome any opposition up to and including the Supreme Court? ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/30 "2016-11-10T01:24:37Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > if I object to [this kind of thing](https://www.facebook.com/GayStarNews/photos/a.213627055380286.51365.166622430080749/1180409382035377/?type=3&pnref=story), am I a “bigot?” I’ve been attacked by people like you, and particularly iiandyiiii, for expressing my fear that someday, saying that I would never date a transgender woman would be considered bigoted and evil. Could we NOT rehash this here? I know your views on this subject. **My question is what if any LGBTQ rights might be rolled back with a Republican Congress?** Whatever your issues with that photo is could you please take it elsewhere? Thank You. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/31 "2016-11-10T01:26:35Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Lol. I don’t get it. What did I do this time? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/32 "2016-11-10T10:35:33Z")
No rights of any sort will be rolled back, especially not for gay Americans. However, forward progress will be stalled. Basically, the issue is going to be on the backburner. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/33 "2016-11-10T14:50:36Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > if I object to [this kind of thing](https://www.facebook.com/GayStarNews/photos/a.213627055380286.51365.166622430080749/1180409382035377/?type=3&pnref=story), am I a “bigot?” I’ve been attacked by people like you, and particularly iiandyiiii, for expressing my fear that someday, saying that I would never date a transgender woman would be considered bigoted and evil. You were attacked for calling trans people repulsive and disgusting, not for saying you would never date a trans person. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/34 "2016-11-10T16:27:45Z")
[Still doesn’t look good](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/religious-right-activist-ken-blackwell-leading-domestic-policy-for-trumps-transition-team/) Edit: Here are some specific proposals > [@](#): > > Ancalle said that the FRC is “working to generate a comprehensive list” for the Trump administration of executive orders, executive guidance and administrative regulations that a President Trump should rescind soon after taking office, and of Bush-era policies that he should reinstate. She said that the group was working with contacts on Trump’s transition team to get their wish list into the GOP nominee’s hands. > > Among the priorities that she said FRC is pushing for in the first 100 days of a Trump administration: > > [ul] > [li]Rescind the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s guidance assuring that federally funded emergency shelters house transgender people according to the sex with which they identify.[/li][li]Reinstate the Mexico City Policy, which bars U.S. foreign aid from going to groups that provide abortion-related services or advocate for abortion rights abroad, even when those services are not paid for by U.S. government funding. This so-called “global gag rule” was rescinded by President Obama.[/li][li]Reinstate a rule instituted by President George W. Bush that provided broad “conscience protections” for health care workers refusing to participate in care for religious reasons. According to the Washington Post, the rule “was widely interpreted as shielding workers who refuse to participate in a range of medical services, such as providing birth control pills, caring for gay men with AIDS and performing in-vitro fertilization for lesbians or single women.” In 2011, the Obama administration rescinded much of the Bush-era regulation but maintained conscience protections for health care providers who do not want to perform abortions. Ancalle noted that the FRC wants to make sure that new regulations allow physicians not to care for transgender patients by providing hormone therapy and other treatment.[/li][li]Reinstate Bush’s ban on federal funding going to embryonic stem cell research.[/li][li]Rescind President Obama’s executive order banning federal contractors from engaging in anti-LGBT discrimination.[/li][/ul] > Although Ancalle did not explicitly name them among FRC’s first-100-days priorities, she also criticized the Department of Education’s guidance on access for transgender students in public schools; the Department of Health and Human Services’ contraception mandate; the “completely lawless” Equal Employment Opportunity Commission guidance on access for transgender people in the workplace; and President Obama’s executive actions on immigration. > > She also indicated that the FRC would urge a President Trump to undo the Obama administration’s work pushing LGBT and reproductive rights abroad, saying that the administration has “in some ways become a lobbying organization” and that “ambassadors that are appointed and sent overseas to represent American values have not only kind of flipped on their head what Americans stand for, what you and I stand for, but have really begun to lobby governments in attempting to accept same-sex marriage, in attempting to accept this gender identity dysphoria and attempting to push abortion acceptance and pro-abortion legislation in those different governments.” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/35 "2016-11-10T18:27:49Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Still doesn’t look good. Edit: Here are some specific proposals Trump will do business with the Pence side (which prioritizes getting The Gays and The Females back under proper control) because he needs their cooperation to accomplish what he wants to do. So he _will_ accommodate their wishes to sell to the American public a rolling back of LGBTQ rights. Yes, the upcoming Supreme Court (after Trump’s replacement of Scalia and especially after his subsequent replacement of whoever leaves the Court next) will be glad to uphold any state-constitutional amendments, restricting LGBTQ rights, that may arise and be contested. And, yes, calls for a rights-restricting amendment to the federal Constitution will be heeded, and such an amendment will be proposed and put into the ratification pipeline. And a further ‘yes’: enough states will ratify to make it law. I’d like to say “unless,” but I’m not sure exactly what form the “unless” could take. Hearts and minds need to be changed. Appealing to the Trump voters is probably next to useless; they just _know_ that Teh Gays are Ruining Amurica and such. I’d like to see beloved celebrities put in some effort to counteract this–Trump voters do listen to celebrities. I mean, if every top NASCAR driver made it a personal mission to speak out in defense of the rights of LGBTQ people, that would have an impact. Might not be likely to happen, but it would make a difference if it did. Certainly, reliance on the existing _power structure_ to maintain rights is purely wishful thinking, now, given that the power structure has been thoroughly taken over by the right–from local up to national. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/36 "2016-11-10T19:08:01Z")
I didn’t get seriously scared until I saw the names “Huckabee” and “Blackwell” on Trump’s hypothetical team. If this is any indication of things to come, we may be in for some truly bad times. I’m old enough to remember what it was like being gay in the '50s and '60s. If we’re going to return to that, it may be time to leave the country. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Lol. What the hell is wrong with you? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/37 "2016-11-10T19:21:26Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > if I object to [this kind of thing](https://www.facebook.com/GayStarNews/photos/a.213627055380286.51365.166622430080749/1180409382035377/?type=3&pnref=story), am I a “bigot?” I’ve been attacked by people like you, and particularly iiandyiiii, for expressing my fear that someday, saying that I would never date a transgender woman would be considered bigoted and evil. Would a transgender woman ever date _you_? You’ve complained that your shortness condemns you do “fat chicks.” How many are you seeing right now? Clue: Lots of shorter guys can be quite successful–in life & with women. But they have confidence, brains & good hearts. Everybody looks down on you, with good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/38 "2016-11-10T19:26:33Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Would a transgender woman ever date _you_? You’ve complained that your shortness condemns you do “fat chicks.” How many are you seeing right now? > > Clue: Lots of shorter guys can be quite successful–in life & with women. But they have confidence, brains & good hearts. > > Everybody looks down on you, with good reason. I’m a transwoman and I’d date him. That may seem confusing, but there’s a common misconception that we’re humans and date for love, happiness, and mutual respect. In fact, we’re all secretly terrifying praying mantis creatures in disguise that devour our mates from the inside, and thus our primary purpose in dating is sustenance. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/39 "2016-11-10T19:37:55Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’m a transwoman and I’d date him. That may seem confusing, but there’s a common misconception that we’re humans and date for love, happiness, and mutual respect. In fact, we’re all secretly terrifying praying mantis creatures in disguise that devour our mates from the inside, and thus our primary purpose in dating is sustenance. [Note To Self]Avoid saying “Eat me” during orgies.[/NTS] ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219/40 "2016-11-10T20:35:34Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Would a transgender woman ever date _you_? You’ve complained that your shortness condemns you do “fat chicks.” How many are you seeing right now? > > Clue: Lots of shorter guys can be quite successful–in life & with women. But they have confidence, brains & good hearts. > > Everybody looks down on you, with good reason. **[moderating]** Please avoid making personal derogatory comments toward other posters. **[/moderating**] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-rights-going-forward/771219.md?page=3)