# Lgbtq... Y ~p? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374 "2019-08-08T21:44:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/21 "2019-08-10T00:43:12Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Downloading child porn is an action. Specifically it’s an action that encourages suppliers of child porn to step up their game, producing more and more content to feed the unending demand. Agreed, see my post 2 posts above this one. However, the same goes for gore, murder, self harm, etc… These are real things, real fetishes, theres a real demand, and theres a real supply. It doesn’t matter what it is, where there is demand, there will be supply. You can try all you want to stop the demand, but until you stop the supply it will always exist. I don’t believe it’s right to lock someone up for watching porn, regardless of what it is even if its child porn or gore. Yes, you’re giving the supplier a motive to supply more. That’s a problem, but locking people in cages for watching porn on their computer, I just cannot agree with that. I think we should be more focused on alternative ways to stimulate their desires. Specifically Loli and roleplay. I think we all agree, pedophilia is just a fetish like any other fetish. Pedophiles just like homosexuals can’t change what turns them on. Society is simply not robust enough yet to handle pedophilia. Let me throw out some crazy ideas. Let’s say we have full VR with neurolinking, so you can 100% control your own body in VR, and you can feel physical sensation in this VR. Someone designs a pedophile VR, where pedos can in a virtual reality have sex with children. I believe, our current society would make this illegal under the false premise that it’ll incentivize pedos to have sex with real life children. I’d argue that like loli, it would stimulate their sexual desires allowing them to keep them in check better. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/22 "2019-08-10T00:57:10Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I think we all agree, pedophilia is just a fetish like any other fetish. Pedophiles just like homosexuals can’t change what turns them on. Society is simply not robust enough yet to handle pedophilia. Let me throw out some crazy ideas. We don’t all agree. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/23 "2019-08-10T01:46:43Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > We don’t all agree. How don’t you agree? It’s literally a fetish, a specific sexual desire. I 100% do not understand what you’re disagreeing with. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/24 "2019-08-10T05:10:17Z")
First, [pedophiles are distinct from sexual predators](https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/pedophilia). Depending on the age of the individual, only 30-50% of “pedophiles” actually display sexual preference for children. The other 50-70% are not sexually attracted to children but are more properly classified as child molesters (AKA sexual predators). This study concludes that due to extreme variance in socio-cultural norms on a global basis, it’s very difficult to determine how many people actually have a sexual preference versus a different cultural norm. Second, extreme fetishism and pedophilia are both considered sexual disorders in the medical community, [but are not considered the same disorder](https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sexual-disorders/dsm-5-and-paraphilias-what-psychiatrists-need-know). [A brief refresher on fetishism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism): > [@](#): > > Sexual fetishism or erotic fetishism is a sexual fixation on a nonliving object or nongenital body part. > [@](#): > > In common parlance, the word fetish is used to refer to any sexually arousing stimuli, not all of which meet the medical criteria for fetishism. This broader usage of fetish covers parts or features of the body (including obesity and body modifications), objects, situations and activities (such as smoking or BDSM). Paraphilias such as urophilia, necrophilia and coprophilia have been described as fetishes. Third, conflating homosexuality with pedophilia is wrong. Healthy homosexual relationships involve consenting adults (just as healthy heterosexual relationships do). By definition, children cannot consent. Fourth, [pedophiles can change](https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sexual-disorders/mini-quiz-can-pedophilia-be-treated) their sexual preference, just as other types of sexual disorders can be treated. > [@](#): > > Multiple lines of evidence suggest that paraphilic interests do change. These include the fact that sex crime rates are dropping, the incidence of sex crimes decreases as people age, and **the likelihood that a known high-risk sex offender will ever re-offend decreases the longer the offender does not commit a crime** —as well as the self-report of men and women with paraphilic disorders. Fifth, see bolded line above. I’m calling it out for emphasis. Engaging in pedophiliac behavior, even virtually, is the opposite of what should be done in order to successfully treat the disorder. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/25 "2019-08-10T05:24:30Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Yes there is. They are both uncontrollable fetishes or sexual desires. You can’t turn a gay guy straight, and you can’t turn a pedophile into a non-pedo. > > The parallels between homosexuality and any other fetish or sexual desire, and pedophilia are real, they are significant, and just because you disagree with pedophilia like most people, doesn’t mean those parallels don’t exist or aren’t meaningful. Pedophilia has no more similarity to homosexuality than it does to heterosexuality. If you consider homosexuality an “uncontrollable fetish or sexual desire” (I don’t – sexual orientation is not a “fetish”), then heterosexuality is also an “uncontrollable fetish or sexual desire”. Similarly, you can’t turn a straight guy gay. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/26 "2019-08-10T12:51:40Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I actually had this conversation the other day. > > So here are my thoughts on the matter. Pedophilia, like any fetish, isn’t a choice. If you have a foot fetish, guess what? Feet are going to drive you crazy, if you’re into idk bug bites, well then bug bites are going to turn you on. If we can acknowledge pedophilia is simply a fetish then we can have a good faith argument. Now, we do criminalize these peoples fetish, we tell them it’s wrong to feel the way they do towards children. We all agree that the act of having sex with a child, is totally wrong. However, we don’t agree that people should be punished for the way they were born. A couple decades ago there was a lot of discriminatory positions on homosexuals. We labeled homos as bad, saying it’s wrong to sleep with another man. Ultimately just butt fucking your buddy isn’t harming anyone. However funding child porn, or actually molesting a child, does harm people. This is why I heavily disagree with any government that tries to regulate “loli” or any kind of stimulant for pedophiles to get off to. If you’re turned on by children, sorry to say but for the rest of your life you’re going to be turned on by children. Understanding your fetish can and does harm others specifically children, you should obviously not act on those instincts. Of course you’re going to seek pleasure, which is why you date a small asian women and ask her to dress up like a little girl, or you go find a loli hentai and jerk off to it. Society is not robust enough to handle pedophiles, so it’s up to pedophiles themselves to stimulate their desires in ways that do not harm others. > > As for how society treats pedos. I think we should acknowledge that we are indeed discriminating against them, but for good reason. There are a lot of parallels with homosexuality and how we treated the gays. We should stop demonizing pedophilia and telling them they’re bad people for feeling the way they do, and instead acknowledge they are humans with fetishes like anyone else. This doesn’t mean we let them rape kids, it just means we try to incentive them to stimulate their fantasies in a way that doesnt harm children, IE watching loli or fucking a girl who dresses up like a child. > To clarify some points. > > Q) Should we try changing pedophiles behavior > A) No, just like you shouldn’t try turning a gay guy straight. > > Q) What should we do about pedos raping children > A) Incentivize other forms of stimulation, IE loli or role play. > > Q) What do we do about someone who has child porn > A) delete it, find who made it delete all traces of it. Personally, I don’t believe the government should be throwing people in jail for jerking off to children, gore, rape, murder, whatever grotesque shit you can think of. My main concern is how far this will go, the precedent it sets. Of course we don’t want pedophiles funding other pedophiles who rape children, but at the same time we shouldn’t want a precedent of the Government breaking down your door taking your computer and throwing you into a cage for looking at something because it turns you on. I personally, think it’s more wrong for the Government to be locking people up due to their sexual nature, than it is for a ring of pedophiles to circulate footage of a child in a sexual manner. I don’t like it anymore than most people, but I can’t in a good conscious justify locking someone up for their sexual orientation especially when the only crime they committed was watching porn. I disagree with the conclusions you reach even if your underlying assumptions are correct. My point of disagreement is this. It doesn’t matter if whatever we’re discussing is something that people are born with. If it’s harmless (being homosexual, being heterosexual, having a fetish for feet, or any number of other things) then there should be no kind punishment because there is nothing wrong with the behavior. On the other hand, if something is harmful (pedophilia, but also other things that are not necessarily sexual like a tendency towards violence, being a serial killer, whatever) it doesn’t matter whether or not someone is like that because they were born that way. Sucks to be them, but as a society we cannot allow them to act out their urges or fantasies. If they are celibate and want psychiatric help, then it should be provided. If they partake in whatever their harmful preference is, and watching child porn does count as partaking, then they should be punished. Being born that way isn’t an excuse, and again, sucks to be them, but that’s just the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/27 "2019-08-10T13:23:15Z")
I’ve had some radical religious Christians tell me my asexuality is wrong because I’m denying the way God made me. So what? Who am I hurting? The rah-rahs saw I’ll be happier with a man. Fuck 'em. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/28 "2019-08-10T13:47:34Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I’ve had some radical religious Christians tell me my asexuality is wrong because I’m denying the way God made me. > > So what? Who am I hurting? The rah-rahs saw I’ll be happier with a man. Fuck 'em. Exactly. It doesn’t matter whether you or any one else were born that way, became that way because of your environment, or some combination of the two. What matters is whether or not your or any one else’s actions hurt others. If they don’t then it’s nobody else’s business what we do or don’t do. If we are harming someone else, then society via the legal system should intervene. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/29 "2019-08-10T13:58:02Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > We should stop demonizing pedophilia and telling them they’re bad people for feeling the way they do, and instead acknowledge they are humans with fetishes like anyone else. We can begin by having all Chuck E Cheese locations hang banners out front reading **Pedophiles Welcome!**. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/30 "2019-08-10T14:04:32Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Yes there is. They are both uncontrollable fetishes or sexual desires. You can’t turn a gay guy straight, and you can’t turn a pedophile into a non-pedo. > > The parallels between homosexuality and any other fetish or sexual desire, and pedophilia are real, they are significant, and just because you disagree with pedophilia like most people, doesn’t mean those parallels don’t exist or aren’t meaningful. The key is “meaningful.” Serial killers breathe air just like non-serial killers, so they are like the same! That’s about the level of ridiculousness I’m seeing. The more obvious delineation is on the one side you have activity that harms other people, specifically children, and on the other, you have activity that harms no one. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/31 "2019-08-10T16:53:19Z")
FBI agent John Douglas has a chapter in his book Journey Into Darkness about the “proper” activities for pedophiles, like using children’s clothes and toys catalogs instead of porn, viewing children in public, talking to them when they are with an adult, and backing off if the child seems at all reluctant to interact with you. In no way, shape, matter or form does he endorse using child porn or other, more gross out activities. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/32 "2019-08-10T20:16:51Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > but at the same time we shouldn’t want a precedent of the Government breaking down your door taking your computer and throwing you into a cage for looking at something because it turns you on. So you’re saying it should be legal to look at child porn? No, absolutely not. If someone’s looking at child porn, yes, absolutely they should be arrested and sent to prison. It is NOT a victimless crime. The children who were used to make said material are being abused all over again. The idea that “it’s just pictures!” is a sick and fucked up one. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with someone’s computer being confiscated and them being “thrown into a cage” for looking at child porn. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/33 "2019-08-10T20:56:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Bug any Aeolus consideration would telll Bug what? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/34 "2019-08-10T21:05:02Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Bug what? I think I meant to say “but any serious consideration …” I think someone at Autocorrect is messing with me. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/35 "2019-08-10T21:42:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So you’re saying it should be legal to look at child porn? No, absolutely not. If someone’s looking at child porn, yes, absolutely they should be arrested and sent to prison. It is NOT a victimless crime. > > The children who were used to make said material are being abused all over again. The idea that “it’s just pictures!” is a sick and fucked up one. > > I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with someone’s computer being confiscated and them being “thrown into a cage” for looking at child porn. As I said, I turned in my housemate for it for this reason. But what about super-realistically simulated images? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/36 "2019-08-11T01:04:32Z")
I have a sneaking suspicion that pedophilia is genetic, just like homosexuality, and also heterosexuality. If science finds out that this is the case, society will have to deal with it somehow. ---
**Author:** ![yo\_han\_go](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yo_han_go/32/130_2.png) [@yo\_han\_go](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yo_han_go)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/37 "2019-08-11T01:05:58Z")
That is the thin line we are talking about. I’d say it is in same bag with super realistic gore movies. Bad taste? For Sure. Anyone hurt ? Not likely (assuming author only used models from imagination). I do not like to be seen as devil’s advocate here, but I don’t like the idea of enforcing thought crime from 1984 either. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/38 "2019-08-11T01:58:21Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > As I said, I turned in my housemate for it for this reason. But what about super-realistically simulated images? IMO for one, if no harm, then no foul. If it’s purely virtual CG or drawn hentai with no real people used in the making, there should be no legal problem, however distasteful some other observer may find it. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/39 "2019-08-11T02:14:49Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I have a sneaking suspicion that pedophilia is genetic, just like homosexuality, and also heterosexuality. > > If science finds out that this is the case, society will have to deal with it somehow. Shouldn’t be any harder than if they find out being a psychopath is genetic. I don’t think we ought to be locking them up before they begin acting on it is some illegal ways. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374/40 "2019-08-11T18:24:47Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > As I said, I turned in my housemate for it for this reason. But what about super-realistically simulated images? I honestly don’t know. As long as it was a certainty that they were simulated, and that they didn’t use real people as models, I suppose. (Although it still turns my stomach) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lgbtq-y-p/838374.md?page=3)