# Liabilities for gun free zones **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 18, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249 "2016-07-18T21:01:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/1 "2016-07-18T21:01:01Z")
New law in Tennessee that makes it so that businesses are liable if they disallow guns. So if a store puts up a sign prohibiting guns and a person is injured in a way that could have been prevented by the person having a gun and [ul] [li]were authorized to carry a gun at the time of the incident[/li][li]prohibited from carrying a firearm because of a gun-free sign[/li][li]the property owner was not required to be posted by state or federal law and posted by choice[/li][/ul] then the person can sue for failing to provide sufficient security while simultaneously preventing that person from protecting themselves. I have thought this should be the case ever since the Colorado theater shooting, as a former soldier I hate being put in a shooting gallery situation without the ability to protect myself. Also if every place you go can disarm you you’re either going to leave your gun at home or in the car. Either way it helps to prevent the safety increase by criminals not knowing who is armed. > **[This is by far the BEST GUN LAW In Years!](https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/want-a-gun-free-zone-tennessee-says-thats-on-you-literally?utm_source=COTR&utm_medium=COTR&utm_campaign=COTR&utm_source=COTR&utm_medium=COTR&utm_campaign=COTR)** > > THIS State Passes Genius New Law To Get Around Gun Free Zones ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/2 "2016-07-18T21:49:58Z")
Sounds like William Munny has been elected to write laws for Tennessee. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/3 "2016-07-18T22:17:53Z")
Tennessee must be a very fortunate place if law makers have nothing better to do that come up with laws that cover these contrived situations. I always wanted to go live in the US for a while, but all this gun stuff makes me rethink that desire. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/4 "2016-07-18T22:24:20Z")
This law is bull. If I, as a business owner, post that guns are not allowed, then you, as a terrified consumer, have every right to avoid my place of business. If you then in full knowledge of the situation decide to patronize my business anyway, then you have agreed to the supposed risk and have therefore assumed any indemnity. (And if I do allow guns but no “good guy with a gun” happens to be there, are you less injured than if I had posted that guns are not allowed?) These legislators are grandstanding for the stupid voters (of which one can never underestimate the number). ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/5 "2016-07-18T22:38:32Z")
If a business allows guns and an armed customer fails to stop an armed robbery, can the business sue the customer? It’s only fair. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/6 "2016-07-18T22:52:39Z")
Although the OP’s example is a purely political statement, the whole ‘Gun-Free Zone’ thing is itself nonsense. You cannot make up your own laws that supersede state and/or federal ones. If you are licensed by your state to carry a concealed weapon you may carry it wherever you like unless an area is specifically prohibited by another state/federal law. A college can claim they are a ‘gun free zone’ all they like but the most they can do is expel or fire you for breaking their rules, you cannot by arrested or jailed because you have not broken any actual laws. Same is true for most all businesses and personal homes. Because a home is private property the homeowner can order you off at any time, but whether or not you possess a gun has nothing to do with it. A business is private property open to the public so, again, unless there are specific laws restricting gun possession in those areas (i.e. a bank, a police station, a correctional facility etc.) putting up a sign saying ‘gun free zone’ is about as meaningful (legally) as putting up a ‘Hillary 2016’ poster… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/7 "2016-07-18T22:59:57Z")
It’s no more nonsense than a restaurant having a dress code. Nobody expects someone to be _arrested_ for entering a restaurant in a T-shirt and shorts but the restaurant can still restrict entry based on their code. That is all that’s expected from a no gun zone surely? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/8 "2016-07-18T23:05:54Z")
Sounds like someone in TN grew a pair. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/9 "2016-07-18T23:18:29Z")
It’s an interesting issue because it presents a direct conflict between two rights conservatives hold dear: the right to bear arms and the right of property owners. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/10 "2016-07-18T23:22:27Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > You cannot make up your own laws that supersede state and/or federal ones. Care to comment on Tennessee code 39-17-1359, which specifically gives individuals and businesses the power to post signs excluding weapons from their premises, and violators are subject to criminal charges? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/11 "2016-07-19T01:23:06Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > A business is private property open to the public so, again, unless there are specific laws restricting gun possession in those areas (i.e. a bank, a police station, a correctional facility etc.) putting up a sign saying ‘gun free zone’ is about as meaningful (legally) as putting up a ‘Hillary 2016’ poster… If I, a business owner, tell you that you may not bring your gun onto my property, and you insist on doing so, I have every right to order you to leave, and then call the police and have you arrested for trespassing. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/12 "2016-07-19T01:25:31Z")
It will be interesting a) once it actually happens and a suit is filed. b) said case goes up the chain-of-justice through the various levels. I think its much ado about nothing at this point in time. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/13 "2016-07-19T01:53:30Z")
there are quite a few businesses around here that have big signs stating that persons carrying guns are not welcome inside. Maybe because they know that gun-toting people are prone to violence? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/14 "2016-07-19T02:05:45Z")
Prohibiting guns from a business premises is perfectly legal. It is not discrimination – that only occurs when it’s something the person banned can’t change – race, religion, etc. It’s no different that banning smoking in your premises. You can choose not to allow customers to do anything, so long as it’s something that’s a personal choice. You can not carry the gun, but can’t not be Black, for instance. The “right” to carry a gun does not supersede other people’s rights. ---
**Author:** ![SuperAbe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@SuperAbe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperAbe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/15 "2016-07-19T02:43:44Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > You can not carry the gun, but can’t not be Black, for instance. I’ve frequently not been Black… (With apologies to _Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead_.) ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/16 "2016-07-19T02:44:47Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The “right” to carry a gun does not supersede other people’s rights. No one has a constitutional right to never be near a legally owned gun. And in the phrase ‘the right to carry a gun’ the word right does not belong in quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/17 "2016-07-19T02:49:17Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > No one has a constitutional right to never be near a legally owned gun. And in the phrase ‘the right to carry a gun’ the word right does not belong in quotes. That’s not the point here… did you see post #11? > [@kunilou](#): > > If I, a business owner, tell you that you may not bring your gun onto my property, and you insist on doing so, I have every right to order you to leave, and then call the police and have you arrested for trespassing. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/18 "2016-07-19T03:33:00Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > there are quite a few businesses around here that have big signs stating that persons carrying guns are not welcome inside. Maybe because they know that gun-toting people are prone to violence? Gun-toting people who are stopped by signs don’t tend to be the violent ones. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/19 "2016-07-19T03:39:21Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > If I, a business owner, tell you that you may not bring your gun onto my property, and you insist on doing so, I have every right to order you to leave, and then call the police and have you arrested for trespassing. Exactly right as a business owner you have that right in most states. What this law does is attach a duty to provide protection to the people whose right of self protection you have limited by ban. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249/20 "2016-07-19T03:45:05Z")
Is a Tennessee shopkeeper liable if they DO allow guns on the premises, and an idiot shoots somebody, whether accidentally or maliciously? (See, for example, the toddler [who shot his mother in the head in an Idaho Wal-Mart](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/30/woman-shot-with-own-gun/21062089/). If that bullet had killed another customer instead, would their survivors have had a claim against Wal-Mart?) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liabilities-for-gun-free-zones/760249.md?page=2)