# Liars and Lying (Not in GD) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 9, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955 "2014-09-09T13:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/1 "2014-09-09T13:11:01Z")
This is not a question; I am just getting this on the public record. “You are a liar”, “you are lying”, “that is a lie” - these are all completely acceptable in all forums **except** Great Debates. Regards, Shodan * * * MODERATOR COMMENT TO AVOID CONFUSION: Shodan is not a moderator. Official statements and correction of this statement are below. – CKDH ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/2 "2014-09-09T13:11:55Z")
So then where does, “you’re a cry-baby” go? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/3 "2014-09-09T13:22:02Z")
Presumably in the Pit, but IANAM. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/4 "2014-09-09T13:23:09Z")
“Pants on fire” seems to be a wish of personal injury. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/5 "2014-09-09T13:24:33Z")
Has it been ruled that calling someone a liar isn’t an insult? If so, that’s sad. If not, I’d have to say that first one can only be said in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/6 "2014-09-09T13:30:41Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Has it been ruled that calling someone a liar isn’t an insult? If so, that’s sad. If not, I’d have to say that first one can only be said in the Pit. I am reliably informed that calling someone a liar is OK in any forum except GD. I didn’t know that this was the case, even though I have been here fourteen years, so I started this thread. But I can say with confidence - calling someone a “liar” is not against the rules in any forum except Great Debates. It is within the rules in every other forum. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/7 "2014-09-09T13:38:39Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > “Pants on fire” seems to be a wish of personal injury. Nonsesnse. It clearly means “remove your trousers, place them in an appropriate container for burning, and (carefully) flame on.” It’s a wish for illumination and insight. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/8 "2014-09-09T13:39:09Z")
Link? ETA: not the pants thing, but rather **Shodan** ’s reliable info. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/9 "2014-09-09T13:50:25Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Link? > > ETA: not the pants thing, but rather **Shodan** ’s reliable info. It hasn’t been stated publicly, hence this thread. But the sticky in GD and **Jonathan Chance** ’s recent ruling > [@](#): > > “You’re making that up” is, to my mind, equivalent to “you’re lying/you’re a liar/what-have-you”. apply _only_ to GD. FTR I am not trying for a gotcha or being sarcastic or anything else. Nor do I intend to start peppering my posts in ATMB or IMHO with “that is a lie” in every other line. I have been a Charter Member, and I did not recognize this. I thought the ruling against “you are a liar/that is a lie” applied everywhere except the Pit. Instead, it applies only to GD. Now we all know. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/10 "2014-09-09T14:24:23Z")
Then perhaps you could work on your reading comprehension. The sticky in Great Debates mentions that forum specifically. Further, the rule itself also mentions that it applies to Great Debates specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/11 "2014-09-09T14:29:38Z")
Like I said (in PM), it can be modded outside of GD if it gets aggressive or causes a topic to hijack or dissolve into insults, but no, there is no official rule about saying someone else is lying outside of GD. However, in this case, the line was “You made some stuff up”, which I wouldn’t quite say was an accusation of lying. To me, an accusation of lying requires intent to show disbelief. However if someone is uninformed, wrong, or mistaken about something, saying they made the facts they’re presenting up would definitely not be out of bounds. But it really doesn’t matter since accusing someone else of lying isn’t either (outside of GD, that is). [See here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17403042#post17403042) for a recent example of someone saying they didn’t believe someone else, that was not modded (although a mod posted in the topic later for another reason). ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/12 "2014-09-09T14:40:12Z")
There is always a civil way to say almost anything, just makes life easier, why would someone want hostility and animosity here following them around, just seems a bad vibe to me. Enjoy 😉 ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/13 "2014-09-09T14:42:31Z")
Blanket statements about something being OK or not being OK are usually false. So, as with practically everything here, IT DEPENDS on the context, the situation, the tone, the exact wording. Blanket statements about something being OK or not being OK are usually false. “You are a fuckin’ perpetual liar” is an insult everywhere. “That statement is untrue” is not an insult anywhere. Everything in-between, it depends on the forum, the context, and the wording. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/14 "2014-09-09T14:51:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > “You are a liar”, “you are lying”, “that is a lie” - these are all completely acceptable in all forums **except** Great Debates. As has been said (and as the OP should understand) this depends on context. There is a specific rule against accusations of lying in Great Debates. Statements like this might qualify as personal attacks or unacceptable rudeness in other forums, and thus be subject to moderation. There is a specific rule against political and religious jabs in General Questions. This does not mean that all political jabs are permissible on all other forums. ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/15 "2014-09-09T15:02:35Z")
I like the Dope, kind of. Being the newbie i am still reading different personalities and personas. I like the humor and intelligence even genuine curiosity and well…ignorance as long as things are asked with sincerity and a little respect. I certainly get the need to vent occasionally, what I don’t understand is why does the board allow for the same sh\*\* disturbers to remain on SDMB? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/16 "2014-09-09T15:20:44Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As has been said (and as the OP should understand) this depends on context. I think the phrase “as long as it doesn’t become jerkish” can be understood to be appended to any SDMB rule that says “such-and-such is allowed”. > [@](#): > > There is a specific rule against political and religious jabs in General Questions. This does not mean that all political jabs are permissible on all other forums. Which is one of the reasons I started this thread - “you are lying/a liar/that is a lie” is specifically ruled out in GD, but is permissible in all other forums. That was not clear to me, so I thought it could be more widely communicated with an ATMB thread. > [@](#): > > MODERATOR COMMENT TO AVOID CONFUSION: Shodan is not a moderator. Official statements and correction of this statement are below. – CKDH I said it already in post #3, but IANAM. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/17 "2014-09-09T15:25:26Z")
In some forum areas – like About This Message Board – the emphasis should be on the post and not the poster. So an accusation against a poster such as “You are a liar” in About This Message Board is going to get some attention. “That statement is untrue” is okay, though it can be inflammatory based on context. If you say something like that you should be ready to back it up and not just be venting. Everything is context here. “You are a liar” is about the poster and not about the statement. Don’t say things like that in About This Message Board. We do encourage civil discourse and there is nothing polite about “You are a liar.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/18 "2014-09-09T15:49:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think the phrase “as long as it doesn’t become jerkish” can be understood to be appended to any SDMB rule that says “such-and-such is allowed”. Then why did you suggest that you didn’t understand this in the OP? You flatly stated that the phrases would be “completely acceptable,” without qualification, in other forums. If you understood the distinction, it would have been better to state that in the OP. > [@](#): > > Which is one of the reasons I started this thread - “you are lying/a liar/that is a lie” is specifically ruled out in GD, but is permissible in all other forums. That was not clear to me, so I thought it could be more widely communicated with an ATMB thread. Considering the length of time you’ve been here, I think it should have been. Most posters don’t seem to have much problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/19 "2014-09-09T15:58:11Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > Everything is context here. So then, in GQ if someone asks what a small harp is called, I could respond, “Lyre”? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955/20 "2014-09-09T15:59:09Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Then perhaps you could work on your reading comprehension. The sticky in Great Debates mentions that forum specifically. Further, the rule itself also mentions that it applies to Great Debates specifically. So it’s my reading comprehension? > [@Colibri](#): > > There is a specific rule against political and religious jabs in General Questions. This does not mean that all political jabs are permissible on all other forums. So it’s not my reading comprehension, since the rule against “liars/lying” is specific to GD because it mentions GD while the rule against political or religious jabs in GQ is not specific to GQ. > [@TubaDiva](#): > > Everything is context here. “You are a liar” is about the poster and not about the statement. Don’t say things like that in About This Message Board. We do encourage civil discourse and there is nothing polite about “You are a liar.” is there a context where it would acceptable to say to another poster or mod “you are a liar” in ATMB? [QUOTE=Colibri] Considering the length of time you’ve been here, I think it should have been. [/QUOTE] Considering it’s never been clearly stated before, and since we have seen that some of the rules specified for one forum apply to others and some do not, and especially since **TubaDiva** appears to be waffling, no, it should not. > [@](#): > > Most posters don’t seem to have much problem with it. **Ethilrist** and **kayaker** don’t appear to have known about it. Regards, Shodan [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liars-and-lying-not-in-gd/697955.md?page=2)