# Libby, but not Rove says NYT. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 28, 2005, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286 "2005-10-28T06:22:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/1 "2005-10-28T06:22:55Z")
So, it looks like Rove is off the hook (at least for now) and it’ll just by Libby. Is this just an “inside the beltway” catfight, or is this going to resonate with the electorate? I just don’t see people getting up in arms about this. I did an informal poll of my fairly educated, fairly informed friends yesterday and no one even knew who Libby was. Is this going to blow the lid off Bush’s whole rationale for taking us to war? I just don’t see it. I think the anti-Bush crowd is suffering from the same myopia that the anti-Clinton crowd suffered from in during the impeachment broo-hah-hah-- that any charges flung at the administration will force the whole country to open its eyes and realize they don’t really want Bush/Clinton to sit in the Oval Office. And no, I’m not trying to equate getting a blow job with taking the country to war. I’m just trying to equate the myopia exhibited by the folks on the more extreme wing of either party. Comments? (I know this is a futile request, but can we keep this thread focused on the facts of the case, and dispense with the _ad hominems_ against Rove et al?) > [@](#): > > [Cheney Aide Appears Likely to Be Indicted; Rove Under Scrutiny](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28leak.html?hp&ex=1130558400&en=2f2eae5de9b925ab&ei=5094&partner=homepage) > > WASHINGTON, Oct. 27 - Lawyers in the C.I.A. leak case said Thursday that they expected I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, to be indicted on Friday, charged with making false statements to the grand jury. > > Karl Rove, President Bush’s senior adviser and deputy chief of staff, will not be charged on Friday, but will remain under investigation, people briefed officially about the case said. As a result, they said, the special counsel in the case, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, was likely to extend the term of the federal grand jury beyond its scheduled expiration on Friday. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/2 "2005-10-28T07:47:24Z")
I was just thinking how much better the world would be if Clinton had caused just one person to be killed and Bush had gotten 2,000 people blown. I bet enlistment would be up as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/3 "2005-10-28T09:34:45Z")
The only people who cared that there were no WMD were Democrats. The majority looked to Washington to identify a focal point for their malevolence. The President, who is no fool, duly obliged. When it became undeniable that the ostensible cause for war was unfounded, the response was predictable. Support for Bush increased in the constituency. Such resentment as there was attached to the President having bent to giving reasons to the the liberal left and to the assembled UN. The absence of any legitmate cause of war was a knockout sucker punch by the nation’s right wing. The values dear to the left and UN internationlists were squashed flat and atomised. The less cause for war and the greater the deceit practiced on the left, the stronger the right will hew to its leader, who has served them well. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/4 "2005-10-28T14:12:31Z")
…but Rove isn’t safe and is still under investigation. If the grand jury is done today how is Rove still in danger? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/5 "2005-10-28T14:19:07Z")
I am looking at Sevastapol’s words, but… I don’t see any sense in them. Can someone explain them? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/6 "2005-10-28T14:40:51Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Is this just an “inside the beltway” catfight, or is this going to resonate with the electorate? Seems to be resonating some. I can’t find the data for this [poll](http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/25/cia.leak/), but the article states that: > [@](#): > > Thirty-nine percent said some administration officials acted illegally in the matter, in which the identity of Valerie Plame, a CIA operative, was revealed. > > The same percentage of respondents in the CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll said administration officials acted unethically, but did nothing illegal. That’s 78% that believe some administration officials acted badly. There’s a wide awareness of this across the country. I definitely do not believe it will stay inside the beltway. I suspect your friends aren’t as informed as you think they are. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/7 "2005-10-28T14:45:16Z")
Several sites are saying Fitz will file documents at 11am ET (keep checking his [web site](http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/)), and will have a press conference at 1pm Eastern. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/8 "2005-10-28T14:48:39Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > There’s a wide awareness of this across the country. Maybe they explained the situation to them before asking the poll questions? I just don’t see this wide awareness. Like John Mace, I’ve been taking informal polls of friends, family, co-workers, and people I meet who are interested in politics, except I’ve been doing it pretty consistently since around June of this year. Outside of my brother, I’ve yet to talk to anybody who has ever heard of this case. The most common response is along the lines of, “Who is Karl Rove?” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/9 "2005-10-28T14:52:15Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Maybe they explained the situation to them before asking the poll questions? Maybe. Like I said, I couldn’t find anything on the poll itself. Gallup wants money. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/10 "2005-10-28T15:27:01Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I am looking at Sevastapol’s words, but… I don’t see any sense in them. Can someone explain them? I had the exact same experience. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/11 "2005-10-28T16:12:01Z")
Ditto. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/12 "2005-10-28T16:31:59Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Several sites are saying Fitz will file documents at 11am ET (keep checking his [web site](http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/)), and will have a press conference at 1pm Eastern. Looks like it will now be held at 2PM, according to [this](http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/documents/press_advisory_1028.pdf). In the true spirit of a Great Debate, I will withhold any opinions or speculations until hearing the proceedings of the Press Conference. Move this to the Pit, however, and all bets are off… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/13 "2005-10-28T16:40:53Z")
People don’t give a rat’s rear about Libby. A few more care about Rove but he wasn’t in elective office anyway. The real meat is Dick Cheney. If there is a new grand jury to investigate the knowing use of lies to justify a war, and they find cause to indict Cheney, then that will be newsworthy. Libby by himself means nothing. My hope is that this is but Act I in the play Fall of the House of Bush. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/14 "2005-10-28T17:10:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > People don’t give a rat’s rear about Libby. A few more care about Rove but he wasn’t in elective office anyway. The real meat is Dick Cheney. If there is a new grand jury to investigate the knowing use of lies to justify a war, and they find cause to indict Cheney, then that will be newsworthy. Libby by himself means nothing. I’m glad to see you recognize that. But where do you get the idea that a grand jury is going to investigate “lies to justify a war”? I hope you don’t think that was what the original grand jury was investigating… BTW, Libby resigned. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/15 "2005-10-28T17:15:06Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m glad to see you recognize that. But where do you get the idea that a grand jury is going to investigate “lies to justify a war”? I hope you don’t think that was what the original grand jury was investigating… > > BTW, Libby resigned. We shall see. Rumors had been rampant about the investigation continuing into the matter of why they wanted retribution on Wilson in the first place- his exposing the African uranium story as false. I hope they continue along that vein. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/16 "2005-10-28T17:18:26Z")
Libby was indicted on one count of obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury and two counts of making false statements, court documents show. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/17 "2005-10-28T17:23:20Z")
[indictment](http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/documents/libby_indictment_28102005.pdf) (PDF). Any lawyers care to pick it apart? ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/18 "2005-10-28T17:46:52Z")
I had little or no awareness of Libby before last week, but one wouldhave to have one’s head under a rock not to have at least heard his name on the news in the last week. On, of all shows, The Colbert Report, Lesley Stahl (who was in journalism back in the 1970s) commented that the Watergate Scandal was, in terms of media coverage and public awareness, full of stops and starts and gaps at first. FTR, she didn’t say she thought this was another Watergate, she was merely implying that not having wide awareness and deep resonance at this stage could not, in and of itself, be construed as an indication that it wasn’t another Watergate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/19 "2005-10-28T17:52:15Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Is this just an “inside the beltway” catfight, or is this going to resonate with the electorate? Indictments mean a trial. That means members of the Bush administration being forced to publicly discuss the decision-making process for the Iraq War under oath. This is just the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286/20 "2005-10-28T17:56:38Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > Indictments mean a trial. That means members of the Bush administration being forced to publicly discuss the decision-making process for the Iraq War under oath. Nope. The Judge will confine the trial testomony to the charges, and won’t let this become a political circus. You heard that here first! Any “trial” of Bush’s decision making about the war, will take place in the press, as it already is. We’ll see how much traction that gets. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libby-but-not-rove-says-nyt/328286.md?page=2)