# Liberal (American) dopers, a question **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-american-dopers-a-question/563845 "2010-12-12T02:32:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![HRoark43](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bc8723/32.png) [@HRoark43](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HRoark43)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-american-dopers-a-question/563845/121 "2010-12-16T06:40:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Unfortunately, that does not change the fact that most Americans are working class, and always have been, and always will be. So the only relevant question to ask is, what does the working class need from the nation? (Hint: It ain’t trickle-down.) They need a lot. The problem is, whose responsibility is it to give them anything? Let them provide for themselves. That’s what my great grandparents did: they came to America, started their own business, lost a son to leukemia, but still managed to pass on their semi-meager wealth to the next generation, who snowballed. Life’s hard. There’s no guarantees. You have to rely on yourself first. My family was dirt poor and they made it, why is it so hard for everyone else to? We didn’t get welfare but they did put my dad through private school and they instilled in him the values that lead to success. Yeah, the working class needs a lot - but they can’t get it from ‘the nation’. They need to get it from within. > [@](#): > > “People who make their own wealth” – needing neither employers nor employees – includes the few remaining Mom & Pop stores, the few remaining family farmers (arguably), drug dealers (some), and practically nobody else. Okay… and? That means we have fewer people now who can be entrepreneurs. Maybe mother nature is saying the herd needs to be culled. I’m not trolling here… this does happen in nature. We’ve got a nation of people who depend on the Government. Regulations this welfare that. My family came here and lived in the ghetto and busted their butts to prosperity. Question: if you take all the money from the rich where will that money go to in 10 years? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-american-dopers-a-question/563845/122 "2010-12-16T09:10:13Z")
Who says we’re taking all the money from the rich? Who are we, Jesus Christ? Nah, we’re just skimming off the top. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-american-dopers-a-question/563845/123 "2010-12-16T14:55:21Z")
It’s quite clear that the very rich are taking their money from everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-american-dopers-a-question/563845/124 "2010-12-16T17:18:02Z")
> [@](#): > > We’ve got a nation of people who depend on the Government. Regulations this welfare that. My family came here and lived in the ghetto and busted their butts to prosperity. I can’t help but notice your post was full of ‘my family this’ and ‘my family that’. Nothing about what YOU have done. For despising people living off the work of others, you’d think that you would quit living off the work of others. I suppose casting stones while mooching off grandpa’s success is easier though. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-american-dopers-a-question/563845/125 "2010-12-16T17:57:39Z")
Liberal hypocrisy! Liberal hypocrisy! AAArrrooooga! AAAroooga! Everybody come see the liberal hypocrisy! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-american-dopers-a-question/563845/126 "2010-12-16T18:04:16Z")
> [@HRoark43](#): > > They need a lot. The problem is, whose responsibility is it to give them anything? Let them provide for themselves. :dubious: Every country that has any government at all has accepted a collective responsibility to provide the people with certain things, with one hand, and tax to pay for it with the other. Even if those things are only the country’s general peace, order and safety; and no government worth living under limits itself to those things any more. A small standing army and an unemployment check are different only in degree, not in kind; there is no obvious bright line separating the things a government should provide from those it should not. > [@HRoark43](#): > > That’s what my great grandparents did: they came to America, started their own business, lost a son to leukemia, but still managed to pass on their semi-meager wealth to the next generation, who snowballed. Life’s hard. There’s no guarantees. You have to rely on yourself first. My family was dirt poor and they made it, why is it so hard for everyone else to? We didn’t get welfare but they did put my dad through private school and they instilled in him the values that lead to success. > > Yeah, the working class needs a lot - but they can’t get it from ‘the nation’. They need to get it from within. Employment does not come “from within.” Opportunity does not come “from within.” Otherwise, why would your great-grandparents have left the old country? > [@HRoark43](#): > > Okay… and? That means we have fewer people now who can be entrepreneurs. Maybe mother nature is saying the herd needs to be culled. I’m not trolling here… this does happen in nature. You do realize, don’t you, that nobody takes [Social Darwinism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism) seriously any more? We’ve got a nation of people who depend on the Government. Regulations this welfare that. My family came here and lived in the ghetto and busted their butts to prosperity. Question: if you take all the money from the rich where will that money go to in 10 years? [/QUOTE] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-american-dopers-a-question/563845.md?page=6)