# Liberal equivalent of idealogy over practicality **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251 "2013-05-01T20:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/61 "2013-05-03T06:38:43Z")
Ah yes, another wedge issue, last time it did not work, not even for Zuckerman who is really an astronomer and not really an expert in sociology or population science. He has many years of experience with racists though, and a way to fail at takeovers. > **[Ramtha Riled](https://www.splcenter.org/resources/reports/ramtha-riled/)** > > Since 1989, a woman who calls herself J.Z. Knight has drawn tens of thousands of followers, including Hollywood celebrities, to her Ramtha School of Enlightenment in Yelm, Wash., where she says she channels a 35,000-year-old “Lemurian warrior.” The... In any case, real experts in the matter do not shy away from recommending family planning, and as noticed before the reality is that there is one big reason why this is not discussed more, when Environmentalists do mention population control there are conservative groups ready to denounce the environmentalists. > **[Right-wingers bash Gore for wanting women to have access to birth control](https://grist.org/population/2011-06-22-population-right-wingers-bash-gore-for-supporting-birth-control/)** > > The right-wing media is all aflutter over Al Gore saying that we should educate girls, keep kids from dying, and make birth control available to women. > [@](#): > > So what is it that has conservatives’ panties in such a twist? Surely they don’t object to saving babies’ lives and sending girls to school. They do, however, need to maintain their favorite stereotype of greens as fascist quasi-eugenicists who want to control population via tyranny. They do need to keep the focus on their favorite bete noir, Al Gore. And they do — at least some of them — need to find plausible-sounding excuses to go after contraception. > > It’s almost hard to believe that there are still Americans who object to birth control, other than a few decrepit Catholic archbishops (whose time would be better spent purging child molesters from their ranks). More than 99 percent of American women who’ve had intercourse have used contraception, including 98 percent of Catholic women. Eighty-six percent of Americans say the availability of the Pill has been a good thing for society. Birth control is about as mainstream as it gets. > > And here’s where the hard-core right-wingers are really out of step with America: They actually want to stop women from using birth control. Most of the extremist conservatives won’t say it out loud — they’ll just fulminate about abortion while pushing policies that have nothing to do with the a-word and everything to do with limiting access to contraception. The real experts mention family planing, education and the reduction of poverty as the key to make everyone, even immigrants, reduce the number of children they will have. [http://www.earthpolicy.org/index.php?/books/pb4/pb4\_table\_of\_contents](http://www.earthpolicy.org/index.php?/books/pb4/pb4_table_of_contents) ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/62 "2013-05-03T11:03:53Z")
Just spitballing. Pacifism. Affirmative action. Same sex marriage\*. ACLU-style backing freedom of speech for complete moral failures\*\*. Atheists who get overly anxious about separation of church and state\*\*. \*As opposed to civil unions. Civil unions might arrive quicker. \*\*I hate Illinois Nazis. \*\*\*Talking atheists who make literal federal cases of hicksville nativity displays-- let the baby have his bottle. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/63 "2013-05-03T14:23:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s nonsense. It’s easy to find burger joints in the city, even in the Village. Five Guys is big and they just opened a big location in Times Square. Shake Shack is extremely popular. There are tons of ethnic restaurants because it’s a huge city with people from all over and a lot of them like to try new things, but there’s no shortage of diners and burger joints that make stuff practically everybody likes. I don’t think this would fit the OP’s example anyway, but nobody’s avoiding “American food,” whatever that means. Shake Shacks and Times Square are nowhere near there. Everyone knows you go to Corner Bistro for burgers when you’re in the Village.😃 But yeah, he statement was otherwise absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/64 "2013-05-03T14:46:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Shake Shacks and Times Square are nowhere near there. There’s a Shake Shack in Madison Square Park, which I don’t think counts as the Village but it’s pretty close. I was trying to say those chains have a bunch of locations throughout the city. It’s not like the Village is the only liberal outpost in town. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/65 "2013-05-03T14:57:13Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Environmentalists who realise US population growth is damaging and unsustainable . . . By “US,” of course, you mean “world.” National borders are irrelevant to the problem you describe. So is immigration/emigration. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/66 "2013-05-03T15:09:34Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Just spitballing. > > Pacifism. Don’tcha think America could’ve used a bit more of that, these past 12 years? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/67 "2013-05-03T18:06:21Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Just spitballing. > > Pacifism. > Affirmative action. > Same sex marriage\*. > ACLU-style backing freedom of speech for complete moral failures\*\*. > Atheists who get overly anxious about separation of church and state\*\*. > > \*As opposed to civil unions. Civil unions might arrive quicker. > \*\*I hate Illinois Nazis. > \*\*\*Talking atheists who make literal federal cases of hicksville nativity displays-- let the baby have his bottle. How on earth do you figure any of these are the same thing? Taking a principled stand against something that might benefit you personally, or even taking a principled stand based on flawed principles, is not at all the same thing as refusing something you approve on solely because a particular unattractive label is applied to it, when a synonymous label without the emotional baggage lacks the same effect. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/68 "2013-05-03T18:08:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > How on earth do you figure any of these are the same thing? None of them are even close, but that’s kind of the nature of spitballing. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/69 "2013-05-03T18:12:08Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Just spitballing. > Pacifism. > Affirmative action. > Same sex marriage\*. > ACLU-style backing freedom of speech for complete moral failures\*\*. > Atheists who get overly anxious about separation of church and state\*\*. Okay, the same-sex marriage (with the explanation) and “atheists who …” ones stuck, but I don’t see what aspect of liberal ideology the others contradict. In the original example, we see the conservative values of saving money, efficiency, and pragmatism being violated (by conservative-leaning subjects) in favor of the anti-environmentalism value. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/70 "2013-05-03T18:49:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > None of them are even close, but that’s kind of the nature of spitballing. Oh, gotcha. Lemme try: -Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. -Miniature golf. -Miniature poodles. -The Spanish-American War. -Liverwurst. -Liverpool. -Pool tables. -Tabula rasa. Am I doing it right? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/71 "2013-05-03T18:52:22Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > In the original example, we see the conservative values of saving money, efficiency, and pragmatism being violated (by conservative-leaning subjects) in favor of the anti-environmentalism value. And more importantly, it’s not even in favor of any value. The words “energy efficient” mean, in this context, **exactly the same thing** as “environmentally friendly.” The new phrase does not impart any new information, and the extent to which “environmentally friendly” products are inferior to regular products is **precisely the same extent** to which “energy efficient” products are inferior. The only difference is the wording by which you gain the information that product A uses less energy than product B. So an equivalent would be like that: what wording A would give liberals exactly the same information as wording B, but would make them less likely to purchase the product? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/72 "2013-05-03T20:18:57Z")
Knee jerky opposition to GMO food is the other big one, other than nuclear energy, as far as common lefty political positions which are anti-science and anti-progress. [The Deadly Opposition to Genetically Modified Food](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/project_syndicate0/2013/02/gm_food_golden_rice_will_save_millions_of_people_from_vitamin_a_deficiency.html) > [@](#): > > **Vitamin A deficiency has killed 8 million kids in the last 12 years. Help is finally on the way.** > Finally, after a 12-year delay caused by opponents of genetically modified foods, so-called “golden rice” with vitamin A will be grown in the Philippines. Over those 12 years, about 8 million children worldwide died from vitamin A deficiency. Are anti-GM advocates not partly responsible? > Golden rice is the most prominent example in the global controversy over GM foods, which pits a technology with some risks but incredible potential against the resistance of feel-good campaigning. Three billion people depend on rice as their staple food, with 10 percent at risk for vitamin A deficiency, which, according to the World Health Organization, causes 250,000 to 500,000 children to go blind each year. Of these, half die within a year. A study from the British medical journal the Lancet estimates that, in total, vitamin A deficiency kills 668,000 children under the age of 5 each year. > Yet, despite the cost in human lives, anti-GM campaigners—from Greenpeace to Naomi Klein—have derided efforts to use golden rice to avoid vitamin A deficiency. In India, Vandana Shiva, an environmental activist and adviser to the government, called golden rice “a hoax” that is “creating hunger and malnutrition, not solving it.” ISTM that there is vastly more actual harm done by the left’s anti-nuclear and anti ag-science positions than the pet scientific illiteracies of the right, like the denial of the realities of evolution or the inability to acknowledge the consensus of climate scientists. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/73 "2013-05-03T20:21:50Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Knee jerky opposition to GMO food is the other big one, other than nuclear energy, as far as common lefty political positions which are anti-science and anti-progress. So these are equivalent? What other word, in context, means exactly the same thing as GMO but leads to lefty folks liking the product? (And no, “hybrid” doesn’t mean the same thing in context: GMO refers to an organism created through specific means, in context, just as “organic” in context doesn’t refer to carbon molecules). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/74 "2013-05-03T22:07:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So these are equivalent? What other word, in context, means exactly the same thing as GMO but leads to lefty folks liking the product? (And no, “hybrid” doesn’t mean the same thing in context: GMO refers to an organism created through specific means, in context, just as “organic” in context doesn’t refer to carbon molecules). The wording in the OP and the thread title was not that restrictive, though. > [@dstarfire](#): > > In the interests of balancing my perspective, can somebody point to a similar behavior among liberals (unnecessarily violating one aspect of their ideology to support another)? Genetically modified foods are credited with saving huge numbers of lives among poor people in developing or impoverished countries, and normally those kinds of issues are very important to liberals. But if you say something about the way the foods were altered, often you get a lecture about FrankenFoods and Monsanto and bullshit bullshit bullshit. It’s the ultimate in First World Problems. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/75 "2013-05-04T00:29:40Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Knee jerky opposition to GMO food is the other big one, other than nuclear energy, as far as common lefty political positions which are anti-science and anti-progress. > > [The Deadly Opposition to Genetically Modified Food](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/project_syndicate0/2013/02/gm_food_golden_rice_will_save_millions_of_people_from_vitamin_a_deficiency.html) > ISTM that there is vastly more actual harm done by the left’s anti-nuclear and anti ag-science positions than the pet scientific illiteracies of the right, like the denial of the realities of evolution or the inability to acknowledge the consensus of climate scientists. By personal experience I can grant you this one, but there are many exceptions and there is a measured opposition coming from the right also. But before getting to the GMO one has to point out that IMHO the denial of evolution was one big factor why DDT was not controlled properly to prevent insect resistance from becoming one big reason why DDT was almost lost as a tool to control Malaria, the right then just blamed the environmentalists for all the deaths that are taking place because DDT can not be used as before. The myth that they use is to claim that environmentalists were the sole cause for the banning not evolution or other fauna being affected, on top of that, it is also a myth that its use was banned in all situations, DDT is still being used. [http://www.skepticblog.org/2011/08/10/denial-of-evolution-can-kill-you/](http://www.skepticblog.org/2011/08/10/denial-of-evolution-can-kill-you/) > **[Zombie DDT Myth Will Not Die | ScienceBlogs](https://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2006/08/01/zombie-ddt-myth-will-not-die)** > > Yes, the DDT ban myth is back, this time in "DDT Returns" by Apoorva Mandavilli that reads like a press release by DDT advocacy group Africa Fighting Malaria. It's in Nature Medicine of all places and is subscription only, but because I'll be quoting... Regarding GMO, I’m on the record of raining scorn on the leftist elements that oppose it, unfortunately for this thread this subject is also full of NIMBY, groups opposed to GMO make a big point of having many independents and conservatives on their side. This can be seen on polls regarding GMO labeling: > **[Center for Food Safety | U.S. Polls on GE Food Labeling | | U.S. Polls on GE...](https://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/issues/976/ge-food-labeling/us-polls-on-ge-food-labeling)** > > The Mellman Group, Inc., 11/23/15 - This poll of likely 2016 voters found that 89% said they favor mandatory labels on “foods which... And, lets not forget that many scientists, that are also mostly from the left side of the isle nowadays, are the biggest defenders of GMO: > **[Horizon: Science Under Attack and Tool Academy | TV review](https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2011/jan/25/horizon-science-under-attack-review)** > > It's a shame Horizon is only a TV show and not a four-year degree course in climatology, says Tim Dowling > [@](#): > > In last night’s Horizon: Science Under Attack (BBC2), Sir Paul Nurse, a Nobel-winning geneticist and president of the Royal Society, sought to understand and address the public’s increasing lack of faith in science. He cited several areas of contention: global warming and genetically modified crops among them. The problem, he said, was “not just a clash of ideas, but whether the public actually trusts scientists”. Suspicion of the scientific consensus is not necessarily a minority viewpoint (half of Americans believe climate change is exaggerated) or an expressly political one – people who hate GM crops are rarely on the same side of the left-right divide as people who think climate change is a myth. Indeed, elsewhere, in places like South Korea conservative leaning people are slightly more opposed to biotechnology than left leaning people, now the centrists, those guys are really silly. 🙂 > **[Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=biotechnology%20korea%20food%20opposed&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdafre.rutgers.edu%2Fdocuments%2Framu%2Fcagm_factor_analysis.pdf&ei=OVOEUdXyGoXG0gGc2IHYAg&usg=AFQjCNEXly1dyPe_iPtxXaIO5YV3LcakyQ&cad=rja)** > [@](#): > > Opposition to Biotechnology > > Liberal > 23.81 > > Conservative > 24.60 > > Centrist > 44.05 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/76 "2013-05-04T02:06:11Z")
Paper vs Plastic. Leftys love “environmentally friendly” paper bags. In reality, modern plastic bags are also biodegradable. However it takes more energy to make paper bags and paper takes up more landfill space. But paper is more recyclable. So it’s not necessarily so clear cut that paper is superior to plastic. [http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23358591/](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23358591/) ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/77 "2013-05-04T04:41:44Z")
Yeah I have to agree that this study doesn’t show much. There is usually no free lunch and environmentally friendly products will generally have additional production constraints which make them more expensive and/or lower quality on some dimension. If you don’t care about the environment it makes sense to avoid them. And since we don’t have time to carefully evaluate every single product we buy, it makes sense to use signals like labelling even when they aren’t always accurate as long as they are useful on average. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/78 "2013-05-04T05:18:27Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Most liberals claim to be in favor of education, in favor of helping the poor, and in favor of greater equality for racial minorities. Vouchers that let poor students attend private schools…Most liberals relentlessly oppose vouchers… I have no problem with school vouchers as long as the private schools accepting them play by the _exact same rules_ as public schools (ie not charging anything in addition to the vouchers, accept any child who lives in the local area including disciplinary problems & special ed kids, same curriculum & standardized tests, same anti-discrimination policies, etc). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/79 "2013-05-04T05:29:18Z")
On vouchers, I think there’s a disconnect between liberals on the street and liberals actually involved in politics. teachers unions are a major source of funding for the Democratic party, so other interest groups in the Democratic coalition have their backs. There’s a lot of issues where regular folks and activists disagree. Activists don’t just have principles, but recognize how those principles fit into the larger political picture. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251/80 "2013-05-04T11:24:31Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I have no problem with school vouchers as long as the private schools accepting them play by the _exact same rules_ as public schools (ie not charging anything in addition to the vouchers, accept any child who lives in the local area including disciplinary problems & special ed kids, same curriculum & standardized tests, same anti-discrimination policies, etc). Indeed. Our local school district is involved in a legal dispute with charter schools, not because they have to give part of their budget to the charter schools, but because, due to a loophole in the charter school law, they have to give the charter schools a portion of their funds that are used for things the charter schools don’t offer. So the charter schools get part of the funds for running buses, for operating the free/reduced lunch program, for offering ROTC programs, etc, even though the charters don’t run buses, offer students lunch, or offer ROTC programs. The local school system has to make up the deficit from their general budget, since the amounts they spend on these programs is federally mandated. Things like that lead to some of the friction between charters and publics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-equivalent-of-idealogy-over-practicality/657251.md?page=5)