# Liberal-hater shoots up Unitarian church, kills two **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000 "2008-07-28T23:41:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/21 "2008-07-29T02:46:17Z")
The guy was from Powell, a little town north of Knoxville where my best friends live. I assume he was planning to kill himself as the police closed in; too bad he didn’t eat the shotgun as Step One. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/22 "2008-07-29T02:48:59Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] The guy was from Powell, a little town north of Knoxville where my best friends live. I assume he was planning to kill himself as the police closed in; too bad he didn’t eat the shotgun as Step One. [/QUOTE] They never do. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/23 "2008-07-29T03:02:02Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] They never do. :mad: [/QUOTE] Some probably do, but how are we to know? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/24 "2008-07-29T03:06:54Z")
[QUOTE=vibrotronica] Is that the same attitude you take towards Islamic terrorists? [/QUOTE] It should be. Terrorists or insane idiots come in every ideological stripe. They should all be eradicated. I honestly don’t see the problem with that. Honestly folks, does it really matter what some addled insane dude’s political affiliations are? Can’t we all agree that there are people of this ilk that ride the political spectrum and will commit these crimes no matter whom the President is, whether or not Rush Limbaugh or Keith Olbermann says something about someone they like? Og, get a fucking grip, the guy was insane, don’t try to paint him in my corner because our politics vary slightly. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/25 "2008-07-29T03:24:39Z")
[QUOTE=autz] This is the account she e-mailed just a few hours after it happened. She is amazingly calm considering what happened. She was there with her two daughters, ages 3 and 6. "you may have heard about the church shooting in Knoxville, Tennessee. it was at the Unitarian church. the girls and I were there to see the kids perform “Annie.” a man came in during the show and began randomly shooting with a gun. I saw the woman behind me killed, so I immediately realized what was happening. I think another man was killed too. I threw the girls on the floor and we crawled out a back door. we crawled into the bushes and hid until the police came. [6 year old] got some blood on her from the woman behind, but we were not shot. my leg was twisted and I couldn’t walk, so they took me to the hospital. it turns out, I broke my kneecap in half (probably while crawling frantically). I will have surgery this week." Unbelievable [/QUOTE] Man, your friend is one cool hand. Major props to her, not only for acting quickly and coolly under fire to get her kids to safety, but also for her calm mastery of the situation overall. It must take some serious _cojones_ to **casually** chat about how you broke your own kneecap in half while fleeing from death so soon after the fact. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/26 "2008-07-29T03:40:38Z")
[QUOTE=Stealth Potato] Man, your friend is one cool hand. Major props to her, not only for acting quickly and coolly under fire to get her kids to safety, but also for her calm mastery of the situation overall. It must take some serious _cojones_ to **casually** chat about how you broke your own kneecap in half while fleeing from death so soon after the fact. :eek: [/QUOTE] Tell me about it. She also said that this incident confirmed what she has always known about herself, that she is no hero. She says she never considered tackling and subduing the man as others did and seems a little embaressed about it. I think that she did JUST FINE. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/27 "2008-07-29T03:54:00Z")
Yeah, in a situation like that, nobody could possibly fault her for putting her duty to her kids (and by extension, herself) first. I doubt I’d be much more of a hero if pitted unarmed against a crazed gunman either, even if I were alone. :o ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/28 "2008-07-29T03:59:06Z")
What’s any parent’s first, most basic, primal instinct going to be when bad shit starts up and the kids are in range of it? "Get them out of here **NOW!"** ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/29 "2008-07-29T04:01:03Z")
[QUOTE=autz] Tell me about it. She also said that this incident confirmed what she has always known about herself, that she is no hero. She says she never considered tackling and subduing the man as others did and seems a little embaressed about it. I think that she did JUST FINE. [/QUOTE] she did just fine. Tackling the gunman was better left to the people that were closer to the shooter and thus had more to gain and less to lose. It certainly doesn’t diminish what your friend did, though. If i were attacked in such a way while I was unarmed with my children present, we’d have been crawling too, with our heads down. The whole thing is just sad. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/30 "2008-07-29T04:14:40Z")
I am inclined to be glad the police got him and he didn’t get a chance to off himself first. I am tired of these gunmen (have there been females since Laurie Dan?) killing others and then killing themselves. They need to be alive to see what they have done–insane or sane; ideological zealots or just fucked up assholes. If they hate X group so much etc, why not just kill themselves–why take out innocent people? :mad: It’d be nice if we could find ways to help prevent stuff like this, but that’s never going to happen. I am amazed at your friend’s actions, **autz**. I hope her kids are ok emotionally. The 3 year old may not have too much trouble, but the 6 year old–I hope they do all right. Hell, I hope she’s all right after her knee surgery etc. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/31 "2008-07-29T04:35:58Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Can’t we all agree that there are people of this ilk that ride the political spectrum and will commit these crimes no matter whom the President is, whether or not Rush Limbaugh or Keith Olbermann says something about someone they like? [/QUOTE] You know what? No. At least not here in the US. I’m sorry, but I usually watch Keith Olbermann, and while he mocks the right wing, and sometimes says things like ‘shame on you’ or ‘there ought to be law suits,’ he is _not_ inflammatory. He and other MSNBC political programs generally present conservative viewpoints as a counterwieght to their own. They don’t say things like ‘you never seem to have a gun when you need one’ or stuff like that. They don’t incite violence, or even mob mentality. I think it’s time we start trying to pretend like there’s an equivalence here. Fox News and some of the even more right wing media outlets are far more rabid than the left wing, except for a tiny leftist minority that gets virtually no air time or press whatsoever. I agree that there are people out there who are just waiting for a match to light their fuse, and that if it’s not one thing it will be another. But I do think that the extreme right wing media eggs this on, and clothes these folks with an air of self-righteousness that might just be the tipping point. ---
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/32 "2008-07-29T07:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Wow, **autz** , that’s a hell of a story. At least the kids were ok. It’s been interesting watching Fox News try to spin this story. At first, it looked like they really wanted to paint it as an anti-Christian hate crime (not knowing too much about UU, I guess). After the anti-liberal motivations were made public, they shifted gears and started talking about how liberals aren’t a protected class, so it can’t be a hate crime. That’s technically true, but the shift in tone was interesting. They seemed disappointed that it wasn’t an anti-Christian crime. [/QUOTE] Perhaps by today’s weird standards a case could be made for describing it as an anti Christian hate crime. [Knoxnews.com](http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/28/suspect-was-very-nice-guy/) > [@](#): > > "Massey said that, after learning of Adkisson’s alleged involvement in the church shooting, she recalled a lengthy conversation she had with him a couple of years ago. > Massey’s daughter, Cameron, had just graduated from Johnson Bible College, and Massey was eager to share the news. > But when Massey told Adkisson, he didn’t react as she had expected, and she ended up having to explain to him that she was a Christian, triggering an outburst that lingered in her memory. > “He almost turned angry,” she said. "He seemed to get angry at that. He said that everything in the Bible contradicts itself if you read it. > “I was shocked that he had feelings like that, because I don’t have the same beliefs. I believe in the King James Bible, I believe it literally. … He had his own sense of belief about religion; that’s the impression I got of him.” > According to Massey, Adkisson talked frequently about his parents, who “made him go to church all his life. … He acted like he was forced to do that.” In the final analysis, it looks more like a crime committed by a nut case who was simply motivated by hate. I see no need to stick ‘atheist’ or any other tag in front of his name in an attempt to explain a motive for that lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/33 "2008-07-29T08:10:00Z")
But UU isn’t Christian. It doesn’t _exclude_ Christians, but it doesn’t officially adhere (or object) to Christian doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/34 "2008-07-29T08:11:13Z")
Are Unitarians even Christian? (Not an insult, but I always thought they were pretty much non-denominational, almost a secular church; I know for a fact that you don’t have to be Christian or theist to attend their services as I’ve known Hindus, atheists, and Buddhists who’ve attended.) If you _have_ to call it a hate crime, it could well be said to be against _non_-Christians (though “lone nut” is the consensus and I think the 2 unprovoked murders and several attempted murders are quite sufficient to try him for without having to tack on baggage). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/35 "2008-07-29T08:19:54Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Can’t we all agree that there are people of this ilk that ride the political spectrum and will commit these crimes no matter whom the President is, whether or not Rush Limbaugh or Keith Olbermann says something about someone they like? [/QUOTE] I’m not going to agree. The more influential people will spread hate and lies, the more likely it is that somebody will act accordingly. People who do that bear responsibility. I’m sure there are people who will go postal regardless, but there are also people who wouldn’t go on a killing spree or detonate themselves in a bus on their own accord, but will do so once they’ve been fed with enough propaganda, enough lies, enough hate. You can’t publicly state “Kill those bastards over there” in a major media and then act all innocent when someone listens to the message and actually kill the bastards over there. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/36 "2008-07-29T09:08:04Z")
[QUOTE=autz] She also said that this incident confirmed what she has always known about herself, that she is no hero. She says she never considered tackling and subduing the man as others did and seems a little embaressed about it. [/quote] Tell her that keeping her cool and getting the kids out safely was heroic, too. > [@](#): > > I think that she did JUST FINE. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/37 "2008-07-29T11:47:34Z")
[QUOTE=clairobscur] You can’t publicly state “Kill those bastards over there” in a major media and then act all innocent when someone listens to the message and actually kill the bastards over there. [/QUOTE] Well, I am going to agree with you- that way it all evens out. You can talk all day about how evil liberals are, but telling someone to kill them is incitement to violence and is a crime. I think a class action lawsuit by the surviving church members against the right-wing hatemongers would not go amiss. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/38 "2008-07-29T11:52:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] Are Unitarians even Christian? (Not an insult, but I always thought they were pretty much non-denominational, almost a secular church; I know for a fact that you don’t have to be Christian or theist to attend their services as I’ve known Hindus, atheists, and Buddhists who’ve attended.) If you _have_ to call it a hate crime, it could well be said to be against _non_-Christians (though “lone nut” is the consensus and I think the 2 unprovoked murders and several attempted murders are quite sufficient to try him for without having to tack on baggage). [/QUOTE] Sometimes: 46.1% Humanist. This is the most common belief system. 19% identify themselves as Nature or Earth centered religion (e.g. Wiccan, Druid or other Neopagan tradition. 13% describe themselves simply as Theist. 9.3% self-identify as Christian. 6.2% are mystic. 3.6% are Buddhist. Other perspectives listed are Jewish at 1.3%, Hindu at 0.4%, Muslim at 0.1% and other at 13.3% Some congregations are VERY Christian, some are very Humanist. (1996 survey of UUs - since that time I suspect the Humanists have actually gone down a bit in the Unitarian Church as we’ve been working to emphasize the spiritual a little more than we did at that time.) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/39 "2008-07-29T12:24:04Z")
[QUOTE=Punoqllads] Amidst all of the outrage, I feel it’s important to acknowledge the sacrifice made by Greg McKendry, who put himself in harms way and gave his life in order to protect the other parishioners. The police recovered 70+ shells that the gunman never used because Greg and other parishioners rushed the gunman, keeping him pinned until the police arrived. [/QUOTE] Ah, but think how much faster he’d have been incapacitated had he targeted a _conservative_ church, where everyone from the pastor to the guy carrying the offering plate wears a shoulder holster. Fewer unused shells afterward, sure… but the kind of sermon John Woo can only _dream_ about. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000/40 "2008-07-29T12:44:20Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Ah, but think how much faster he’d have been incapacitated had he targeted a _conservative_ church, where everyone from the pastor to the guy carrying the offering plate wears a shoulder holster. Fewer unused shells afterward, sure… but the kind of sermon John Woo can only _dream_ about. [/QUOTE] I know you’re just joking around here, but this is so illustrative. The liberals are wimps; the conservatives have guns and aren’t afraid to use them. They’ll shoot you just as soon as look at you. We don’t just disagree with you, we think you should be dead. Obviously, very few people would actually carry out the threats, but it seems like it’s becoming more and more acceptable to spout this crap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-hater-shoots-up-unitarian-church-kills-two/458000.md?page=3)