# Liberal left used to be the tough guys **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 23, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778 "2016-11-23T00:55:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/43 "2016-11-23T21:34:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Two words: identity politics. It’s like, instead of coming together, it’s like, if you don’t have SOME form of minority cred or whatever, you can’t speak for the little guy. Or something. It’s almost like segregation, but people are CHOOSING segregation now. > > It’s despressing. ☹ I read something, can’t find it now, but it was about Hillary at a late stage rally. She was calling out to blacks, latinos, women, muslims, LGTBQ, as groups that mattered to her/her cause. And sorta dissed by omission all the folks who didn’t fit into those groups - and that’s quite a few folks. Jon Stewart on it: > [@](#): > > Liberals now tend to paint Trump supporters with a broad brush, Stewart noted—a sentiment he called hypocritical, considering how adamantly liberals tend to fight against viewing various groups as singular entities. > > “I thought Donald Trump disqualified himself at numerous points,” Stewart said, “but there’s now this idea that anyone who voted for him has to be defined by the worst of his rhetoric . . . In the liberal community, you hate the idea of creating people as a monolith. ‘Don’t look at Muslims like a monolith. They are individuals, and it would be ignorant.’ But everybody who voted for Trump is a monolith—is a racist. That hypocrisy is also real in our country.” Elsewhere, I brought up that Trump got really close to the same votes as Romney - and from likely the _same voters_. But 4 years ago people weren’t freaking out that Romney supporters were all the things Trump’s supporters are called today - they are still the same people you knew 4 years ago. You might not have agreed with them then, either, but Stewart realizes that they are fundamentally the same people. Stewart again: > [@](#): > > “I don’t believe we are a fundamentally different country today than we were two weeks ago,” Stewart said. “The same country, with all its grace and flaws and volatility and insecurity and strength and resilience, exists today as existed two weeks ago. The same country that elected Donald Trump elected Barack Obama.” This avoidance of conflict you note manifests itself by inviting people to draw in to safe space cocoons, where they only tolerate like-thinking people. SNL on it: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/vKOb-kmOgpI/maxresdefault.jpg "The Bubble - SNL") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOb-kmOgpI) But there are a lot of people who might have tried to walk the fine line and just found it exhausting - [Political correctness fatigue](http://amarillo.com/news/latest-news/2016-11-15/beilue-political-correctness-fatigue-was-one-reason-trump-won#): > [@](#): > > This doesn’t include Emory University in Atlanta investigating in March a students’ claims of “frustration, pain and fear.” The crime? Someone wrote “Vote Trump” on a sidewalk in chalk. > > And earlier this year, the Bias Response Group at Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania labeled the writing on two occasions on a classroom whiteboard of “Make America Great Again” as “racialized targeted attacks.” When college kids are so coddled that “Vote Trump” chalked on a sidewalk sends them into a tailspin, then the real world is going to be the wrong place for them. Hell, they used to get shot in Ohio - imagine how these special snowflakes would handle THAT scene? I’m not saying anybody should be open to a physical threat, but as Stewart points out, just labeling those with opposing viewpoints as “racist” or “bigot” or “misogynist” isn’t really winning the fight, either. It’s burying your head in the sand. It’s almost the opposite of when I was in second grade - public schools were integrated for the first time. Some parents were freaking out that their little darlings would have to share classes with blacks! Us kids got along fine for the most part, interacting with people outside our little bubble of comfort was a growing experience. Now we howl for “inclusivity” - so long as it doesn’t mean having to include those “others”, you know: them. Conservatives. See SNL above, as well as the first Stewart quote. I know the source will be mocked, but this guy is a hoot. Wants to ban the flag at his university because of the people who use the flag to spread oppression - the military and police. Uh…President Obama is the head of the US military… But anyway, way to make your stand! Sorry if this all comes off as rambling, but I think the safe space, trigger word, PC overload is not having the effect liberals hoped it would. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/44 "2016-11-24T00:07:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > You could always try to join the alt-right. The race and gender thing are a pretty big hurdle in your case, but there are other inroads. How hirsute would you say your neck is, left unattended? You know, more than you would expect? But I attend to it. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/45 "2016-11-24T01:03:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I went to high school in the late 80s. Mostly it was the stereotypical hick jocks and cheerleaders who were the “cool” kids. The Liberals, atheists and progressives were mostly AV and theater kids. > > But I don’t remember things being particularly political or as contentious as they are today. > 90s I remember mostly a lot of ambivalence. I never went to high school. So in high school, perhaps the cool kids were cheerleaders and jocks. But in the grown up world, that wasn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/46 "2016-11-24T01:16:53Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > I don’t think there’s been a shift. It’s all in what you pay attention to and how you frame certain things. Like the election protesters - whiny sore losers or strong people sending a message to the opposing side? There are liberals who want safe spaces and conservatives who are offended by green Starbucks cups and people crying about things being too PC/not PC enough. No, see, that’s the thing. I have been paying attn. And what I noticed is that liberals didn’t always need the damn safe spaces. That is some shit we would have clowned back in the day! Being easily offended was some republican christian type stuff. The starbucks cups, happy holidays, not standing for the pledge, blah blah blah. So that is specifically what I am seeing as a shift. Now the left is being all crybaby. As for the Trump protests, I don’t ever see anyone as whiny sore losers when they are protesting shit that actually has an effect on policies and laws and shit. That is seriously my entire point. This crybaby shit is often about shit that doesn’t really matter. Like getting mad that someone made a joke you don’t like. Hi, Wordman! Missed you! ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/47 "2016-11-24T05:48:59Z")
The simpering Politically Correct have all come around and decided to call themselves liberal, thus diluting the purity of the stock. It was bad enough when we just had Hippies throwing flowers around and giving the impressions that liberals just sat around and sang Kum-baya. ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/48 "2016-11-24T12:18:47Z")
**Nzinga, Seated**! Good to see you. Just the other day, I was wondering how you were doing because I haven’t seen your name around for awhile. I dunno, in the state of Iowa there is a Republican Representative trying to introduce a bill to make it easier to arrest and give longer sentences to people who are protesting politically. He calls this odious bill “Suck It Up, Buttercup.” And the very first thing I thought when I heard that was, **now here’s a guy who got butthurt every time he heard Bill Maher say “whiny little bitch.”** I think his choice of names is an obvious retaliatory lash at those fiendishly attractive\* “liberal media” guys. Here is my take on what has happened to “liberals:” None of the politicians on the supposed left that you hear about in the news are liberals. They are basically vaguely feelgood centrists – and the center is pretty far right from where it used to be. Noam Chomsky is a liberal. Bernie Sanders is a liberal. And I think it’s fair to say that my local Representative, Barbara Lee, is probably still a liberal. (She was the only person to vote against bombing Iraq, because she felt we didn’t have enough evidence of WMD, and she actually received death threats behind that.) But there are practically no proper liberal politicians getting any media attention. Bit by bit, the insistence on everybody being polite, and the fact that the big players are all rich people with intricate financial ties to each other, have moved the conversation steadily away from anything that really matters. Have you noticed how, when politicians make speeches these days, they hardly say anything at all? The problem is that you have to be filthy rich to even play the game at all, and so all of our elected officials must necessarily come from the ruling class. They really have no idea what life is about for the vast majority of their constituents, and what’s more, they don’t care. They could do polls and focus groups 24/7, and never really get it. Because they frame the questions, they direct the conversation; and what really matters never even comes up. But no one ever dares talk about social class anymore. We totally have a class system here in America, but no one ever brings it up, it’s like the elephant in the room that no one mentions. Well, ignoring it will definitely not make it go away. Supposed leftist politicians on TV are always meandering down these stupid little detours of some petty bullshit that means nothing, and they never just get mad. Why not? Racism makes me mad. Income inequality makes me mad. Islamophobia and gaybashing make me mad. Corporate personhood makes me mad. Donald Trump costing New York a million dollars a day in security at his hideous residence, when he openly boasted of paying NO income tax for decades, makes me mad. Why does nobody ever say to these conservatives that hating people is wrong? That greed is wrong? That cheating is wrong? That sexually assaulting women is wrong? Whatever opinions people may have about the punk types from my generation, you gotta say that we were always very politically aware, and had no problem speaking frankly about class and oppression. - I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/49 "2016-11-24T14:05:26Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > No, see, that’s the thing. I have been paying attn. And what I noticed is that liberals didn’t always need the damn safe spaces. That is some shit we would have clowned back in the day! Being easily offended was some republican christian type stuff. The starbucks cups, happy holidays, not standing for the pledge, blah blah blah. I guess you don’t remember Tipper Gore (D) and the PMRC back in the 80s. It’s more about identity politics these days. There are two sides, they both have this fantasy image of what America should look like and then spend their time attacking the other side. There can be no compromise because it’s not about issues. It’s about “my side winning”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/50 "2016-11-24T16:43:39Z")
I always thought [Michael Kinsley](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2MSh3In3XKA/hqdefault.jpg) was the epitome of the liberal tough guy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/51 "2016-11-24T20:27:56Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Wow, it’s interesting how perceptions are different. In my experience, the whiny, cry-babies of the internet are the men’s right/alt-right/nut-jobs types who seem to blubber about anything remotely deemed ‘peecee’ in society. In fact during the whole debate between DJT and HRC I couldn’t help, but see DJT as a [pouting, cry baby](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV76npPvrVo). > > Clearly others seem to take **these same actions** as… strong? I can’t see why. Word. Look at all the people - including in this thread - who cite _one_ insult by Clinton as the reason that so many white people ran out to the poles to vote for a racist fascist. Meanwhile, liberal voters were so able to let the unending litany of insults and putdowns running out of the mouth of that asshole\* just roll off their back that a huge number of them didn’t even bother to show up. Fuck, I _wish_ we were half as thinskinned and whiny as straight white males. We wouldn’t be in the clusterfuck we’re in right now if we were. \*Or, alternatively, the asshole of that mouth. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/52 "2016-11-25T17:57:44Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > It probably wasn’t like this, but this is how I remember it in my hazy montage of the 90s. And the 80s and the 70s and, especially, the 60s. We were as offensive as hell, in the day. I have fucking MISSED YOU! Stay, please. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/53 "2016-11-26T04:25:39Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And the 80s and the 70s and, especially, the 60s. We were as offensive as hell, in the day. I have fucking MISSED YOU! Stay, please. Being offensive and being tough are not mutually exclusive properties, what we see today is precious snowflakes throwing abuse at others while demanding safe spaces for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Sefton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Sefton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sefton)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/54 "2016-11-26T04:52:59Z")
I always thought that liberal “toughness” died down with the labor movement. Today, it feels like the liberal mentality is driven by academia, which prizes inoffensiveness over sincerity. If George Carlin started his career today, I doubt he’d be a success. The only modern Carlin-esque comedian I can think of is Lewis Black. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/55 "2016-11-26T04:59:11Z")
Well, this is NOT referencing the “cool kids” but the “liberal left” still seems to be the “tough guys”, when it comes to military service. Think about John Kerry and Al Gore - BOTH served in Vietnam. How about the conservative “tough guys” like George “Dubya” Bush? Fought the VietCong from the Texas National Guard and never left the United States. Mitt Romney - doing Mormon Missionary work during the Vietnam War. Donald Trump - serious medical deferment for heel spurs in his foot. Incidentally, this is also the kind of thing you an toss at your conservative friends. (It’s something I _always_ do. :D) Yes, there are some conservative politicians such as John McCain whom I do admire. Basically, he is somewhat reserved about using military force. But the folks who haven’t seen _any_ combat are the ones so quick to talk about “bombing the enemy back to the Stone Age.” ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/56 "2016-11-26T05:20:30Z")
you know I’m reminded of my black teacher who in his youth didn’t like milks because he wanted people to be polite and well dressed well spoken ect and liked Malcolm x and such because he didn’t mind pissing people off he said after he became older he realized that mlk’s approach worked better even if he wasn’t as exciting ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/57 "2016-11-26T08:24:50Z")
[quote=“nightshadea, post:56, topic:772778”] you know I’m reminded of my black teacher who in his youth didn’t like milks because he wanted people to be polite and well dressed well spoken ect and liked Malcolm x and such because he didn’t mind pissing people off he said after he became older he realized that mlk’s approach worked better even if he wasn’t as exciting [/QUOTED] That’s the worst over simplification of MLK’s movement that I’ve ever heard. Whew! ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/58 "2016-11-26T08:27:43Z")
Sorry for the coding. I’m still rusty. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/59 "2016-11-26T11:59:25Z")
Interesting thread. First of all, there’s high school and college, and then there’s everything else. You’re always going to get a lot more people of **any** political or philosophical persuasion taking a strong stand at that age, because that’s what we do at that age. If you knew a lot of unabashed liberals at that age, and you don’t see very many now, it’s because you’re no longer in high school or college. Second, I remember the 1990s pretty well. After Gingrich & Co. slamdunked ClintonCare into the dumpster, and took control of Congress right after, Dems from Clinton on down were running away from liberalism, running away from themselves. This year, Hillary Clinton ran on a much more progressive platform, on economic and social issues both, than any Dem Presidential candidate since probably McGovern. And she was the supposed sellout, the Wall Street puppet, compared to Bernie, the Real True Liberal. Dems are tougher now, IMHO, in the sense of being willing to stand for progressive values and not back down, than anytime since the 1994 midterms certainly, and quite possibly a good deal longer. Still a ways short of where I’d like them to be, but the progress is real. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778/60 "2016-11-26T17:21:50Z")
> [@Sefton](#): > > If George Carlin started his career today, I doubt he’d be a success. The only modern Carlin-esque comedian I can think of is Lewis Black. Depends on what one means by Carlin-esque. Maybe Bill Burr. He’s certainly not PC. Has a certain “fuck hope” mentality. Spends a lot more time talking about sex and race than Carlin did. Likes trolling both sides, e.g. “Trump is such a dope its actually gonna make me vote for a woman.” I’ve seen him referred to as the closest thing to a successful conservative comedian, but if you take his views at face value he seems more like a brogressive type. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-left-used-to-be-the-tough-guys/772778.md?page=2)