# Liberal Mind vs. Conservative Mind **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974 "2013-10-11T13:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/1 "2013-10-11T13:34:37Z")
TLDR: Define the Liberal mind as concisely as possible. Define the Conservative mind as concisely as possible. Please try to ignore stance, and define it in the sense of going through life. In other words, try not to be cynical and assume either side is out to “destroy the world”. Assume that there are good intentions, but different methods, even if you do not feel that is the case. If this is hard to envision, imagine a true and honest friend that happens to be in the opposite camp. My example which I am sure is weak as I’m no Pol Sci official: The Liberal mind seeks progress in society through helping society as a whole. The idea is that by helping out your neighbor you are ultimately helping yourself by providing a better world to live in. The Conservative mind seeks progress in society through direct self betterment and betterment of the immediate family. The idea is that as each member of society seeks to better themselves the world as a whole is a better place to live in. This is about as succinctly as I can define the two terms. I’m sure I’ll be bashed to death for my incredible naivete, but there it is. I personally see the immediate benefit and clash that the two views have. If you willingly give it your best to society there may be little left to enjoy for yourself. If you willingly forgo the needs of society you may limit the benefits of synergy. Explore, but lets keep the hate to a minimum - I’d LOVE to keep this friendly. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/2 "2013-10-11T13:52:57Z")
Define “mind.” ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/3 "2013-10-11T14:04:29Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Define “mind.” The mindset - politically. How they approach general government? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/4 "2013-10-11T14:06:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I always thought the world was divided into only two kinds of people–those who think the world is divided into only two kinds of people, and those who don’t. The Late Great Molly Ivins said that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/5 "2013-10-11T14:12:14Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The Late Great Molly Ivins said that. I always preferred “There are three kinds of people: Those that can count, and those that can’t.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/6 "2013-10-11T14:14:06Z")
Amongst others. Dear as she is to me, she did not originate the meme. This source credits Robert Benchley. [http://www.cyco-city.com/two\_types\_of\_people.html](http://www.cyco-city.com/two_types_of_people.html) ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/7 "2013-10-11T14:14:18Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The Late Great Molly Ivins said that. Leave it to the dope to do anything but answer a question in which a conservative might be anything but a demon. Of course I love this answer to an extent because I wouldn’t lump myself into either category. I hate the answer in a practical sense because I’m sure you realize I am talking about the two ideologies as you see them defined and clearly those aren’t the only two viewpoints available. You _think_ you’re being clever by avoiding the question, but in _reality_ your wasting post space. Address the actual OP or don’t post. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/8 "2013-10-11T14:15:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I always preferred “There are three kinds of people: Those that can count, and those that can’t.” “There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.” ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/9 "2013-10-11T14:20:39Z")
This thread is going better than I thought it would. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/10 "2013-10-11T14:22:40Z")
I think Jonathan Haidt’s argument in the Righteous Mind is pretty persuasive on this topic, **AnthonyElite**. Haidt [argues](http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html)that political ideologies flow in large part from moral intuitions that consistently differ between conservatives and liberals across cultures. I think this accounts for a lot of the difference. I also think the other central axis of difference is in view of personal responsibility, and in particular views about the extent to which a person’s outcomes in life are a consequence of his or her decisions. That’s partly a moral question, but it’s also largely an empirical question. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/11 "2013-10-11T14:24:34Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Leave it to the dope to do anything but answer a question in which a conservative might be anything but a demon. > > Of course I love this answer to an extent because I wouldn’t lump myself into either category. > > I hate the answer in a practical sense because I’m sure you realize I am talking about the two ideologies as you see them defined and clearly those aren’t the only two viewpoints available. > > You _think_ you’re being clever by avoiding the question, but in _reality_ your wasting post space. Address the actual OP or don’t post. You want clever? What you are asking us to do is compare one mythological creature to another mythological creature. There is no “Liberal Mind”, nor is there a “Conservative Mind”. What there\* is\* are a thousand sliding scales on a thousand different topics, each one set somewhere between the two, each and every scale governed by our life experiences, and none of them set in stone. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/12 "2013-10-11T14:31:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You want clever? What you are asking us to do is compare one mythological creature to another mythological creature. There is no “Liberal Mind”, nor is there a “Conservative Mind”. What there\* is\* are a thousand sliding scales on a thousand different topics, each one set somewhere between the two, each and every scale governed by our life experiences, and none of them set in stone. Right. And I’m asking you to define how YOU currently view these two mythical creatures. Of course it isn’t set in stone. Is anything, ever? That’s why this is in great debates instead of General Questions. It isn’t grounded in fact, it is grounded in opinion. Are you trying to whoosh me, or are you that driven to derail any conversation on the subject? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/13 "2013-10-11T14:34:14Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I think Jonathan Haidt’s argument in the Righteous Mind is pretty persuasive on this topic, **AnthonyElite**. > > Haidt [argues](http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html)that political ideologies flow in large part from moral intuitions that consistently differ between conservatives and liberals across cultures. > > I think this accounts for a lot of the difference. I also think the other central axis of difference is in view of personal responsibility, and in particular views about the extent to which a person’s outcomes in life are a consequence of his or her decisions. > That’s partly a moral question, but it’s also largely an empirical question. I agree, except that it is not just moral intuitions and personal responsibility. Political orientation is driven by the same kinds of personality and psychological features that drive other behaviors and beliefs. For instance, fear processing distinguishes between conservatives and liberals. This has been evident through cognitive and personality measures, and is now supported by neurobiological (fMRI) measures. Conservatives tend to be more fearful, their amygdalas tend to be overactive in processing info, and their subsequent problem solving is impacted as a result. They generate fewer solutions and are less flexible about them. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/14 "2013-10-11T14:34:26Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I think Jonathan Haidt’s argument in the Righteous Mind is pretty persuasive on this topic, **AnthonyElite**. > > Haidt [argues](http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html)that political ideologies flow in large part from moral intuitions that consistently differ between conservatives and liberals across cultures. > > I think this accounts for a lot of the difference. I also think the other central axis of difference is in view of personal responsibility, and in particular views about the extent to which a person’s outcomes in life are a consequence of his or her decisions. > That’s partly a moral question, but it’s also largely an empirical question. This is VERY interesting! I find myself facing that moral conundrum all the time; on other people and myself. Are the people I judge a victim of circumstance, or their own demons? And myself? Have a risen above my circumstances by my own merits, or have I been fairly lucky in situations where others with the same drive have been stonewalled? Since I cannot discern with absolute clarity I tend to ride the fence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/15 "2013-10-11T14:49:32Z")
First, we should clarify both terms: > [@Wiki](#): > > Conservatism as a political and social philosophy promotes retaining traditional social institutions. A person who follows the philosophies of conservatism is referred to as a traditionalist or conservative. > > Some conservatives seek to preserve things as they are, emphasizing stability and continuity, while others, called reactionaries, oppose modernism and seek a return to “the way things were”. The first established use of the term in a political context originated with François-René de Chateaubriand in 1818, during the period of the Bourbon restoration that sought to roll back the policies of the French Revolution. The term, historically associated with right-wing politics, has since been used to describe a wide range of views. There is no single set of policies that are universally regarded as conservative, because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time. Thus conservatives from different parts of the world—each upholding their respective traditions—may disagree on a wide range of issues. > [@Wiki](#): > > Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas such as free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property. > > Liberalism first became a distinct political movement during the Age of Enlightenment, when it became popular among philosophers and economists in the Western world. Liberalism rejected the notions, common at the time, of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The 17th-century philosopher John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition. Locke argued that each man has a natural right to life, liberty and property and according to the social contract, governments must not violate these rights. Liberals opposed traditional conservatism and sought to replace absolutism in government with representative democracy and the rule of law. Am I the only one notice a small bit of overlap between the two definitions? Anyway, in discussing the difference between the two philosophies several difficulties arise: 1. What is called “Liberal” and what is called “Conservative” varies wildly between countries. 2. How people describe their views don’t always match up with the dictionary definition 3. How people describe the opposing view almost _never_ matches up with the dictionary definition 4. If people are conservative on some issues and liberal on other issues, what mindset is being described? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/16 "2013-10-11T14:54:36Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Since I cannot discern with absolute clarity I tend to ride the fence. What does this mean? Very few people discern _anything_ with _absolute_ clarity-they just make decisions based on what they know and what they think they no and hope for the best, conservative and liberal alike. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/17 "2013-10-11T14:56:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I agree, except that it is not just moral intuitions and personal responsibility. Political orientation is driven by the same kinds of personality and psychological features that drive other behaviors and beliefs. Definitely agree, and I would keep going actually. A lot of actual political disputes have nearly nothing to do with political philosophy and deep-seated personality differences; they are about sincere dispute over empirical facts, social pressures (including religion), self-interest, and other factors. So I think a complete view would have to take into account a lot of different factors. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > For instance, fear processing distinguishes between conservatives and liberals. This has been evident through cognitive and personality measures, and is now supported by neurobiological (fMRI) measures. Conservatives tend to be more fearful, their amygdalas tend to be overactive in processing info, and their subsequent problem solving is impacted as a result. They generate fewer solutions and are less flexible about them. Maybe agree. I’m skeptical of this, and don’t know enough about the science to evaluate the quality of the studies. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/18 "2013-10-11T14:56:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > First, we should clarify both terms: > Am I the only one notice a small bit of overlap between the two definitions? > Anyway, in discussing the difference between the two philosophies several difficulties arise: > > 1. What is called “Liberal” and what is called “Conservative” varies wildly between countries. > 2. How people describe their views don’t always match up with the dictionary definition > 3. How people describe the opposing view almost _never_ matches up with the dictionary definition > 4. If people are conservative on some issues and liberal on other issues, what mindset is being described? There certainly is some overlap! It took me forever to sort this out. What one culture views as conservative another country might see as terrible liberal. The very root of the word is confusing. For instance, to me, the ability to have an abortion is conservative: I conserve my right to abort. The prevention of an abortion is liberal. The benefit of society forgo’s the individual right. But that isn’t how the world and parties discuss it! Took me YEARS to understand that one. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/19 "2013-10-11T14:58:26Z")
Although you speak of “mindset” rather than “brain” there are studies showing differences, that correlate with political alignment, in brain structure and on responses to simple psychological tests. A [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Biology_and_political_orientation&oldid=511211691) might be a starting point to explore that question. (I’ve linked to a specific version of that Wiki article since Edit Wars may be active on that page. 😛 ) ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974/20 "2013-10-11T14:58:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What does this mean? Very few people discern _anything_ with _absolute_ clarity-they just make decisions based on what they know and what they think they no and hope for the best, conservative and liberal alike. I fear aligning with either party because of the foam-at-the-mouth demonizing of the other side. I don’t want to ally with either to make a change because I feel one side ultimately seeks to eradicate the other. Instead I make a moral decision regarding each issue, issue to issue. Because of this an outsider may view me as indecisive, but to me I view the party hardy’s as making a quick decision to avoid a tough question. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-mind-vs-conservative-mind/670974.md?page=2)