# Liberal student in a red state? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 7, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072 "2015-02-07T22:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/21 "2015-02-08T04:43:53Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > no shit. OP is not special, his son is not special, people have been dealing with things like this for a long goddamn time. > > PROTIP: centuries of history occurred before you were born. I didn’t mean to imply I thought either of us is “special”. My question is whether the polarization we’re unfortunately seeing in our country makes it harder for someone to have an overall positive college experience. There’s a lot of grey area between “liberal echo chamber” and an environment where someone who deviates from the norm is considered an outcast. I think it would be good for my kids to be an environment where plenty of people would say, “yer full of shit; wanna go get a beer?” ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/22 "2015-02-08T05:10:02Z")
I join with those who say that it’s a good thing for someone to live among those of a different political persuasion. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/23 "2015-02-08T06:02:23Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > UT Austin does not pay for low gpa/high test scores. UT Dallas does, if they are high enough. UTD would be worth looking at. Might check U of Houston. Back in the High Middle Ages when I was in the OP’s son’s boat ( unimpressive grades, merit semi-finalist based on test scores ) they offered a generous chunk of money relative to the modest tuition. But that may well have changed in the intervening decades. But if not Houston is pretty diverse, if he can tolerate the utterly miserable weather. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/24 "2015-02-08T07:02:01Z")
Kansas overall is pretty conservative but Lawrence Kansas, home to the University of Kansas, is known as the San Fransisco of the midwest. Its VERY liberal. Dont worry, he will be fine. As for the opposite, a conservative on a liberal campus. Keep your mouth shut. Nod your head and pretend to agree with every wacko college professor and student radical. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/25 "2015-02-08T09:26:27Z")
Take him to visit the campus. This is usually a fun thing for HS seniors to do with their parents, and lots of schools have a special week for it, but I’d go during some other week to get the flavor. Each college has its own culture, and if that’s compatible he’ll probably be okay. (Pro tip: I sent my kids to schools too far away to really do this, because I thought it was important to get them far away for awhile. We did visit a few, and it was fun, but the ones they ended up going to were not visited, and still worked out okay.) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/26 "2015-02-08T12:29:29Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > He’d thought about UT Austin, but I told him it would be hard to get any money there. Actually, he’ll have more options if he’s a NM Finalist. His grades might make him one of the 1000 of 16000 who doesn’t make the cut. If they look at his magnet class grades he may be ok; his essay should make it clear that some poor grades in English classes don’t mean he can’t write. I assume being a semifinalist is a given, since the cutoff in MD has never been as high as his PSAT score. His overall GPA isn’t bad, but not what you’d expect from his test scores. If he’s a finalist, he’d probably pick NJIT. I think he’d love living in the NY area. However, his slacking may take that option away. If he’s happy, I don’t care if he goes to Bucksnort State. He’s lucky to have done well enough on the PSAT to have opened some doors. By the time “Finalist” is determined, it will all be over. And in any case, NM doesn’t mean as much as it used to. I would strongly recommend he go ahead and take the SAT before they change it, if he hasn’t already; he’s demonstrated he can do well on this model, and there’s no point in risking a weaker performance on the new one. End of the day, schools want numbers. If you are that confident about National Merit in Maryland, I am assuming a score in the 230s; an SAT in that range is certainly worth something. They generally speak ACT in the deep south. He should take that. They do know how to convert scores, but “35” just carries more “pow” down there than “2310”. The SAT/PSAT aren’t going to show any school he can write; at best, they suggest he can read. AP scores and the admission essay are what demonstrate writing ability. Is he taking AP Lang and APUSH this May? For South, test scores, STEM, money, I’d look to UT Dallas, Auburn, OU, maybe UAH. I have a nephew at UA Birmingham; they offered a lot of money for a 33, but I am really not sure about the academics. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/27 "2015-02-08T14:19:44Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > By the time “Finalist” is determined, it will all be over. And in any case, NM doesn’t mean as much as it used to. I would strongly recommend he go ahead and take the SAT before they change it, if he hasn’t already; he’s demonstrated he can do well on this model, and there’s no point in risking a weaker performance on the new one. End of the day, schools want numbers. If you are that confident about National Merit in Maryland, I am assuming a score in the 230s; an SAT in that range is certainly worth something. > > They generally speak ACT in the deep south. He should take that. They do know how to convert scores, but “35” just carries more “pow” down there than “2310”. > > The SAT/PSAT aren’t going to show any school he can write; at best, they suggest he can read. AP scores and the admission essay are what demonstrate writing ability. Is he taking AP Lang and APUSH this May? > > For South, test scores, STEM, money, I’d look to UT Dallas, Auburn, OU, maybe UAH. I have a nephew at UA Birmingham; they offered a lot of money for a 33, but I am really not sure about the academics. Thanks. His writing is generally considered good. His problem comes when he has to write about a work of fiction. When he wrote an essay on historical accuracy in movies he got an A from the same teacher who gave him D’s on earlier assignments. He’s just going to have to deal with Freshman English in college; we all have to do things we don’t like. He is taking the English AP this Spring, and is pretty confident. We have a list of schools that give automatic scholarships to NM finalists and semifinalists. He’ll probably focus on those, but probably apply to a couple of others. He’s taking the SAT next month. Based on his PSATs there’s a good chance he’ll ace the math. His challenge is that admission departments might label him a “bright slacker”, which wouldn’t be inaccurate. But he made his bed, now he’s got to lie in it. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/28 "2015-02-08T15:41:38Z")
While it’s good to be around different ideologies, at some point the culture does tip to the point that it’s not going to be enjoyable or constructive. I went to UC Santa Cruz, the ultimate liberal echo chamber, and I can’t imagine a very conservative student enjoying it. No major sports, no frats or sororities, extremely limited on-campus Christian organizations, etc. But if you want to watch experimental Shamanist theater while eating quinoa at the LGBT center, it’s all good. Gritting your teeth through classes is one thing, but trying to have a social life where people are activity hostile towards you is another. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/29 "2015-02-08T15:55:38Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > While it’s good to be around different ideologies, at some point the culture does tip to the point that it’s not going to be enjoyable or constructive. I went to UC Santa Cruz, the ultimate liberal echo chamber, and I can’t imagine a very conservative student enjoying it. > > No major sports, no frats or sororities, extremely limited on-campus Christian organizations, etc. But if you want to watch experimental Shamanist theater while eating quinoa at the LGBT center, it’s all good. > > Gritting your teeth through classes is one thing, but trying to have a social life where people are activity hostile towards you is another. I’m pretty far to the left but that doesn’t sound like much fun to me; sort of the liberal equivalent of, say, Bob Jones University. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/30 "2015-02-08T16:02:19Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > Our eldest will be picking a college next school year. He’s expressed a willingness to attend a school in the Deep South if that’s where the money is. A very strong suggestion. Have him do his freshman year in a community college and get the academics like English and history, etc., out of the way. It has two major advantages: 1. A helluva lot cheaper 2. When he applies to the Big University, he’ll be coming in as a transfer college student instead of one of the horde of incoming college freshmen. He’ll probably get priority on his application and stand a better chance of admission, especially if he got a good GPA going at the CC. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/31 "2015-02-08T16:27:07Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > Has anyone experienced going to college in a conservative city when you’re on the opposite end of the political spectrum? … but I’m wondering how much of a shock it would be for a kid who grew up in the DC suburbs. That was me in Texas. Unfortunately, the university, and it was a big one too, was also pretty conservative. But you found your pockets of liberalism and spent your time there. Plus my majors (I had two) were in rather liberal fields. But there was no culture shock, because I was already familiar with the conservatism of Texas, having grown up there. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/32 "2015-02-08T17:00:53Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > A very strong suggestion. > > Have him do his freshman year in a community college and get the academics like English and history, etc., out of the way. It has two major advantages: > > 1. A helluva lot cheaper > > 2. When he applies to the Big University, he’ll be coming in as a transfer college student instead of one of the horde of incoming college freshmen. He’ll probably get priority on his application and stand a better chance of admission, especially if he got a good GPA going at the CC. I would be really surprised if a kid who had a 225+ on the PSAT did not graduate with enough AP credit to have already covered the basics–he’ll probably have one English, maybe 2, Calc AB and/or Stats, US history, and at least one science. That’s at least 14 hours. And that’s the “slacker” path for a very bright young man at a decent school. If he picks up 2 English/2 science/2 math and Gov/Eco in addition to US History, that’s basically your first year at a junior college. And I think that’s probably more usual than not these days for kids who test that well. Second, lots and lots of “test score” scholarships are only for incoming freshmen. Transfer kids are a whole different pool. These are the sorts of scholarships this kid is likely to get, so delaying a year could cost tons. ETA: If he really hates school, he should look into AP credit awarded as a major criteria. This varies a lot, but if he can graduate in three years from somewhere, that saves more than many scholarships provide. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/33 "2015-02-08T17:19:13Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > While it’s good to be around different ideologies, at some point the culture does tip to the point that it’s not going to be enjoyable or constructive. I went to UC Santa Cruz, the ultimate liberal echo chamber, and I can’t imagine a very conservative student enjoying it. > > No major sports, no frats or sororities, extremely limited on-campus Christian organizations, etc. But if you want to watch experimental Shamanist theater while eating quinoa at the LGBT center, it’s all good. > > Gritting your teeth through classes is one thing, but trying to have a social life where people are activity hostile towards you is another. Not all liberals are sports-hating, non-frat joining, atheists. And not all conservatives love sports, join frats and are evangelical Christians. I’ve not spent any real time on UCSC, although I know quite a few people who went there, and they cut across the political spectrum. Your description makes it sound more like Hipster Heaven than anything else. In my experience, college is what you make of it. If you have a mature, positive outlook, you’re going to get what you need out of most any college. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/34 "2015-02-08T21:41:11Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I would be really surprised if a kid who had a 225+ on the PSAT did not graduate with enough AP credit to have already covered the basics–he’ll probably have one English, maybe 2, Calc AB and/or Stats, US history, and at least one science. That’s at least 14 hours. And that’s the “slacker” path for a very bright young man at a decent school. If he picks up 2 English/2 science/2 math and Gov/Eco in addition to US History, that’s basically your first year at a junior college. And I think that’s probably more usual than not these days for kids who test that well. > > Second, lots and lots of “test score” scholarships are only for incoming freshmen. Transfer kids are a whole different pool. These are the sorts of scholarships this kid is likely to get, so delaying a year could cost tons. > > ETA: If he really hates school, he should look into AP credit awarded as a major criteria. This varies a lot, but if he can graduate in three years from somewhere, that saves more than many scholarships provide. He’s got AP English already, and finished up Calc and US History last year. I don’t necessarily think the “test score” scholarships are fair, but I’m all for my kid taking advantage of them (especially since they aren’t limited in number). I wouldn’t say he hates school, but he doesn’t exactly like it either. I’m guessing he’ll like college more than he has high school. I think most of us can agree that learning to relate to people all across the political/religious spectrum is an important skill to have. Still, I can see having too few like minded people to hang out with as a problem no matter what one’s ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/35 "2015-02-09T14:57:16Z")
I went to Texas A&M, a college with a whole lotta conservatives. But there was still definite groups of non-conservatives. I don’t remember people being hassled about being liberal, but I was in engineering classes, it might be different in liberal arts majors. And of course there were tons of different activities on campus; I was in the film society and a movie-making group, one of my roommates was in the hip hop society and in Young Democrats. If A&M was friendly to non-conservatives, I would think that most conservative schools of a decent size would be. I agree with others that if there are any schools he’s interested in, he should visit the campus. He would be able to talk with some of the students, and get a look around, and maybe get a feel for if he’d be comfortable or not. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > Might check U of Houston. Back in the High Middle Ages when I was in the OP’s son’s boat ( unimpressive grades, merit semi-finalist based on test scores ) they offered a generous chunk of money relative to the modest tuition. But that may well have changed in the intervening decades. But if not Houston is pretty diverse, if he can tolerate the utterly miserable weather. I agree, U of H might be worth checking out. I live in Houston, and I know plenty of people who went there, and it’s a decent school. And they definitely chase after National Merit students, even semi-finalists, or they were just a few years ago. I don’t know how conservative or not the campus is, I’m guessing not super conservative, but even if it is, it’s in Houston which is not at all conservative. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072/36 "2015-02-09T16:12:09Z")
Didn’t UF use to give money to National Merit Scholars? That’s the only way I got into University of Florida and afforded it debt free (until I got to professional school). Definitely more liberal than the rest of the state, but not so much as other places (say Athens, GA). I wish I could’ve enjoyed Gainesville more during the years I went there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-student-in-a-red-state/712072.md?page=1)