# Liberal Tolerance on parade at a local middle school... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 13, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547 "2008-11-13T16:27:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/181 "2008-11-13T21:32:03Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > In case anyone cares, [here](http://wednesdayjournalonline.com/Main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=12946)is a slightly less hysterical rendition of the story. > > So, some 14 year-olds acted like dicks to her; some didn’t. The reaction of the teachers ranged from “non-judgement” to outright support. Hey, how come that opinion guy didn’t mention the teachers who said they liked the shirt and admired her for being like Elizabeth Hasselback? Was he massging the facts to make a political point or something? I’m disillusioned. Probably because being compared to someone as ditzy and snotty as Hasselbeck is NOT a compliment? You know, **Sarahfeena** , I’ve always liked you, but this really is incredibly insane. I could turn this around-you’re complaining about how liberals are always talking about tolerance, but aren’t so tolerant themselves? Well, in this thread it seems that conservatives are always saying how much they despise the victim mentality…yet they have the biggest victim complex of anyone. Hmmm? ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/182 "2008-11-13T21:35:20Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Well, I don’t want murderers to have some of the same rights that I enjoy. I don’t want Americans voting in elections over here. It is not _necessarily_ bigoted to not want someone else to have the same right you do, simply because of that. I apologize if I was unclear. Allow me to rephrase and hopefully make my original intent a bit more clear. How can it not be bigoted to actively work and vote towards not allowing homosexuals the right to marry? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/183 "2008-11-13T21:37:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, really? Then perhaps you can explain the true meaning behind the bolded part of his post, as follows: > > _“We desire a world in which people are not discriminated against for the way they are born, and for things that have absolutely no effect on the rest of us. Be tolerant of blacks, because they don’t deserve to be held back based on the color of their skin. Be tolerant of women, because they deserve the basic rights of any human. Be tolerant of gays, because what they do behind closed doors harms me in no way. **What we do not have to be tolerant of is those who wish to oppress blacks, women, and gays.** ”_ The true meaning is, “What we do not have to be tolerant of is those who wish to oppress blacks, women, and gays.” I don’t see any particular reason to go digging for a deeper subtext, unless you’re deliberately looking for a reason to be offended. But then, that’s pretty much all you do around here, isn’t it? > [@](#): > > And who is automatically characterized by the left as posessing these traits and desires if not conservatives? Well, I’d have gone with, “sexists, racists, and homophobes” before “conservatives.” But even if a fair number of liberals do make that assumption, you haven’t given any evidence that **tdn** is making that assumption. Indeed, he’s specifically disavowed it. > [@](#): > > Who is bullied and made fun of in a great number (if not a majority) of the nation’s schools simply for voting Republican? Who is insulted and villianized constantly around this very message board simply by virtue of their political ideology? Is it elves? > [@](#): > > You’re full of shit on this one, **Miller**. Conservatism = hate, bigotry, sexism and oppression to virtually everyone on the left. You know it and I know it, and it’s this convicion that causes liberals to get into such high dudgeon that they feel they can rightfully assail and/or attack anyone who doesn’t agree with them. You really are one of the most openly delusional people I’ve ever met. And that includes random street people who think that Jesus is talking to them through an empty beer can. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/184 "2008-11-13T21:45:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You know, **Sarahfeena** , I’ve always liked you, but this really is incredibly insane. I could turn this around-you’re complaining about how liberals are always talking about tolerance, but aren’t so tolerant themselves? **Guin** ,I like you, too. But seriously, if you and **DianaG** are going to completely change your opinion of me or think that I am insane over something this silly, then I really don’t know what to say. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/185 "2008-11-13T21:55:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Bullshit. Again, it has jackall to do with liberals and everything to do with age. I remember when I was fourteen, one day I wore a big floppy blue hat, the kind of Mayim Bialik might have worn on _Blossom_, or Melissa Joan Hart would have on _Clarissa Explains it All_. I went to school that morning feeling very pretty-by the end of the day, I came home in tears, stuffed the hat in the corner of my closet, and never wore it again. I think you can guess the reaction of my classmates. Indeed. I think her problem is that she hasn’t had to deal with kids of that age yet. I went to a middle school parents orientation before my oldest started, and the principal said that we would find our kids of that age “interesting.” (He meant little monsters.) Kids going through puberty aren’t very sane. Politics has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/186 "2008-11-13T22:02:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perhaps you’re unfamilar with the “Fairness Doctrine”, which, **despite its having virtually all of the new and entertainment media plus much of the nation’s educational system in its pocket** , the left has used to try to minimize or eliminate effective right-wing broadcasts. [bolding mine] Are you fucking serious? “The left” has new media in its pocket? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/187 "2008-11-13T22:03:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perhaps you’re unfamilar with the “Fairness Doctrine”, which, despite its having virtually all of the new and entertainment media plus much of the nation’s educational system in its pocket, the left has used to try to minimize or eliminate effective right-wing broadcasts. Well, I’M familiar with it, and the last time I checked, the “Fairness Doctrine” (if you’re talking about the FCC one, that is), [was abolished in 1987](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_doctrine). :dubious: [sub]dumbass[/sub] Now, IF said kids were being cruel-I will say, I do believe school should be less tolerant of bullying. NOT as this “zero tolerance”, half-assed measures, like banning kids from playing certain games, or whatever. I’m talking REAL discipline. Kids being threatened physically? Detention, inschool suspension, etc. Some of the shit that goes on, if it had been committed by adults against coworkers, would be grounds for assault charges. But for some reason, in schools, it’s no big deal. And that goes for liberal, conservative, gay, straight, black, white, Chinese, Arab, Christian, Muslim, WHATEVER. It doesn’t sound like she went through half the shit I did, or my friends did. I hate this “kids will be kids.” I want to make it clear I’m saying this had nothing to do with politics, however, and everything to do with the fact that kids are asshats. They shouldn’t be ALLOWED, however, to ACT like asshat. ETA: Sorry, didn’t see it. **Sarahfeena** , change my attitude towards you? More like, I thought better of you-this is something I’d expect from **Shodan** , or **Starving Artist**. These kinds of stereotypes are stupid. Are all conservatives like the ones on Free Republic? ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/188 "2008-11-13T22:03:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > [@tdn](#): > > > > We desire a world in which people are not discriminated against for the way they are born, and for things that have absolutely no effect on the rest of us. Be tolerant of blacks, because they don’t deserve to be held back based on the color of their skin. Be tolerant of women, because they deserve the basic rights of any human. Be tolerant of gays, because what they do behind closed doors harms me in no way. What we do not have to be tolerant of is those who wish to oppress blacks, women, and gays. > > See, here’s a classic example of liberalism in action. One can’t simply disagree with you without being labled an ‘oppressor’. All right, I’ll cop to it. If someone wants to deny blacks any of the rights that whites have, if someone wants to deny women any of the rights that men have, or if someone wants to deny gays any of the rights that straights have, then I’ll gladly call them an oppressor. I will NOT advocate that their right to free speech be removed. I will NOT advocate that any of their rights, period, be removed, in fact. But I will shout and protest in MY voice against their voice, and my voice will call them bigoted oppressors. If that’s intolerance, then fine, I’ll be intolerant of bigotry, and I’ll gladly call those sorts oppressors. Make up the T-Shirts. N.B.: I did not say that I’m intolerant of _conservatism_, and you’re unfairly conflating the two, **Starving Artist** (and I think you know that, at some level). If someone who holds any or all of these bigoted beliefs is a conservative, I’ll be “intolerant” towards them because of the bigotry, not because of the conservatism. If someone wants to argue that taxes should be cut or prayer should be mandatory in schools, I’ll disagree with them, but I won’t be intolerant in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/189 "2008-11-13T22:14:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Or are you asserting that insults and assaults do not constitute “intolerance”? I’ll say this: there is _no_ group of human beings that does not include assholes in it, there never has been, and there probably never will be. There are liberal assholes, there are conservative assholes, there are Jewish assholes, there are Catholic assholes, there are gay assholes, there are straight assholes, and so on and so forth. The existence of an asshole in a group of people does not mean all people in that group are assholes. OTOH, it’s human nature to defend the assholes in “your” group and think that everybody in the other group must be like that to one degree or another. But, as JK Rowling said in one of the Harry Potter books, “The world isn’t divided into good people and Death Eaters.” You can substitute “liberals” or “conservatives” for “Death Eaters”, and it’s still true. Or you can substitute “people who agree with the local majority opinion on whatever issue”- it sounds awkward, but it’s still true. Are assholes who agree with local majority opinion perhaps more vocal about their dislike of those who disagree with them than those who hold a minority opinion? Maybe so, or maybe you just see more of them because there are more of them around (that’s what it means to have a majority opinion, after all). But don’t think there aren’t people on the other side of the issue who’d be just as bad given the chance. There is no issue and no religious group that has succeeded in preventing jerks from claiming agreement or membership if they want to, and I doubt very much there ever will be (if a religion manages it, I’ll start to suspect that the leader might be the Messiah, seriously). What do you want us liberals to do about the fact that there are liberals who are assholes? We can’t really kick them out. Anyone who says “I’m a liberal” can be considered one- there’s no central authority that can say “no, you’re not”. You have the same problem- I’m sure there are some people who identify as conservatives who you want nothing to do with, but you can’t really do anything about their identifying themselves as conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/190 "2008-11-13T22:21:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > ETA: Sorry, didn’t see it. **Sarahfeena** , change my attitude towards you? More like, I thought better of you-this is something I’d expect from **Shodan** , or **Starving Artist**. These kinds of stereotypes are stupid. Are all conservatives like the ones on Free Republic? Yes, we all are. That’s why I’m hanging out here, and not over there. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/191 "2008-11-13T22:30:47Z")
You can’t stand yourself either? … little joke there … ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/192 "2008-11-13T22:35:09Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Yes, we all are. That’s why I’m hanging out here, and not over there. :dubious: So why is it okay to judge “liberal tolerance” by the actions of these assholes at said middle school? I understand you’re upset about the school your son will be attending. But what about the fact that many of our posters here have been denied the right to marry (in CA)? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/193 "2008-11-13T22:41:11Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > But, as JK Rowling said in one of the Harry Potter books, “The world isn’t divided into good people and Death Eaters.” You can substitute “liberals” or “conservatives” for “Death Eaters”, and it’s still true. You know what, I think I’m going to use this as a sig. I know it wasn’t your’s, and I will credit Rowling, but I’ve always liked it. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/194 "2008-11-13T22:50:25Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Who said it was OK? I thought this was a terrible pun when I first read it. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/195 "2008-11-13T22:50:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, I’M familiar with it, and the last time I checked, the “Fairness Doctrine” (if you’re talking about the FCC one, that is), [was abolished in 1987](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_doctrine). :dubious: Ah, but you see **Guin** , a handful of Democrats have brought up the possibility of reinstating it. This, of course, has led to certain people (dumbasses) to rail about how Obama is going to use it to silence the good, respectful, conservative broadcasters. Funny this is, even though they know [it has some important opponents](http://www.broadcastingcable.com/CA6573406.html), they still love using it as a scare point. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/196 "2008-11-13T22:53:01Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Do you want people to get outraged at every story of middle schoolers acting like dicks and bullying someone for being different? Because it happens a lot, and I’m not sure I have that much outrage in me. I have some extra outrage if you want. You can have it cheap. In fact, the first hit’s free. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/197 "2008-11-13T23:02:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I have some extra outrage if you want. You can have it cheap. In fact, the first hit’s free. Giraffe, don’t do it! Next thing you know, you’ll be breaking into the ADL, just to see if they have some extra outrage in the copy room. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/198 "2008-11-13T23:10:10Z")
I’m late to the party and definitely too late to prevent Sarahfeena from lying down with dogs and coming up with fleas based on the company she is keeping in this thread… but I did see some rather obnoxious and intolerant behavior from the pro-Obama kids in the middle school where I teach. My town is wildly liberal, so the Obama supporters greatly outnumbered the McCain kids (80% to 20% in the school election). They put up a big OBAMA sign in the hallway, and privately, several kids told me it made them feel weird, so I took it down. A kid got in my face about it, called me a “McCain lover” and said “this is war.” :rolleyes: This is not liberal behavior. This is rude, annoying, bullshit tweener behavior. There were also several vocal pro-McCain kids who were trolling for negative responses too. One kid made a 3’ tall hat out of construction paper with McCAIN written on it and tried to insist he be allowed to wear it in class. No. No propagandizing in my class, esp. not if it blocks the view of the chalkboard. Sorry. He definitely relished the hostility of his peers, and said things like, “You want to vote for a terrorist? Fine, go for it.” And expressed faux outrage when kids wanted to punch him. This is not conservative behavior. This is rude, annoying, bullshit tweener behavior. I am pro-Obama, but unlike some of my co-workers, I did not display propaganda, and I argued both sides with the kids. When a pro-Obama kid said something ignorant, I corrected him and did the same to the pro-McCain kids. The most egregious incident was when one kid said, “His name is Barack HUSSEIN Obama. Now, what do you think THAT means? He’s a Muslim terrorist.” I pointed to his friend, standing right next to him. “See your buddy right there? His middle name is Mohammed (and it was, actually-- a perfect teachable moment because the kid is not Middle Eastern or Muslim). Does that mean he’s a terrorist? Heck, doesn’t mean he’s a Muslim either. Don’t judge people based on their names. You might miss out on some cool people that way.” The child was suitably sheepish, and his friend thought it was hilarious to go around claiming to be a terrorist for the rest of the day by virtue of his middle name. OTOH, I saw very similar obnoxious propagandizing every year that the Yankees were in the World Series, sometimes even more negative and divisive. It is meaningless, I assure you, because I guarantee that 95% of the kids espousing political opinions have no fucking idea why they support Candidate X, except that their parents do. Some of them can repeat basic talking points but their political views tend to have little substance. It’s just another us v. them thing, which is what middle school is all about: defining yourself, usually at the expense of those who are different. Middle school kids are not liberals or conservatives. They are hormone-addled quasi-adolescent maniacs. I don’t know why anyone would extrapolate anything from this about liberalism or conservatism. I love ya, Sarahfeena, but I suspect you posted this because you were hoping to have a ‘gotcha ya’ moment with the reactions of the liberals on this board. And yeah, the kids were probably rude to the girl in your article, but they would have found something else to be rude about if it weren’t her McCain t-shirt. And that’s the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/199 "2008-11-13T23:43:49Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Giraffe, don’t do it! Next thing you know, you’ll be breaking into the ADL, just to see if they have some extra outrage in the copy room. 😕 This post troubles me. You seem to be implying that my motives are something other than pure. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547/200 "2008-11-13T23:45:44Z")
Great post, Rubystreak! Can’t respond at length, right now, but just wanted to say that I really wasn’t hoping it would be a gotcha ya. I got pretty much the reaction I expected, other than I suppose I didn’t expect that what I said would be considered so obnoxious that it would change anyone’s opinion of me. Believe me, I don’t take the actions of middle schoolers quite that seriously…but I do wish more of our teachers were like you. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-tolerance-on-parade-at-a-local-middle-school/472547.md?page=11)