# Liberal vs. Conservative: How can you tell if an idea is one or the other? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943 "2003-02-05T14:32:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/1 "2003-02-05T14:32:50Z")
Given that the words as used in the modern American political sense have very little to do with their dictionary denotations or with historical uses, what exactly do the terms mean? Is it possible to determine whether a political idea is one or the other with out referencing who believes in it? I mean an idea that hasn’t already been classified. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/2 "2003-02-05T14:41:02Z")
If, beyond suppressing coercion, it interferes with: (1) your personal freedom, it is a conservative idea; (2) your economic freedom, it is a liberal idea; (3) both, it is an authoritarian idea; (4) neither, it is a libertarian idea. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/3 "2003-02-05T14:44:20Z")
These terms are largely relative, and have different meanings outside the US, so I would prefer not to use them. [This site](http://www.politicalcompass.org/) shows a grid that expands on **Libertarian’s** hypothesis, with both left-wing and right-wing ideals plotted against authoritarian/libertarian applications of those ideals. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/4 "2003-02-05T15:37:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*[This site](http://www.politicalcompass.org/) shows a grid that expands on **Libertarian’s** hypothesis, with both left-wing and right-wing ideals plotted against authoritarian/libertarian applications of those ideals. \*\* Thanks for the cite, **jjimm**. It says I’m on the libertarian right. Another factor in the US is that the two parties are financially beholden to certain interest groups. So, support for corporations, defense spending, and Christian conservative groups is right wing. Support for lawyers, teachers’ unions and civil rights organizations is left wing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/5 "2003-02-05T15:43:43Z")
I have found the terms to be so meaningless that I, literally, do not use them anymore. You’re better off using something like “Free Market” or some other silimar term to describe a certain position that someone holds. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/6 "2003-02-05T16:05:48Z")
Hmmm. Kind of an interesting quiz…could make for its own thread. My results: Your political compass Economic Left/Right: 0.25 Authoritarian/Libertarian: -2.56 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/7 "2003-02-05T16:14:31Z")
The scale placed me firmly on the right… but couldn’t decide whether I’m Libertarian or Authoritarian. I ended up right on the bar. What that proves, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/8 "2003-02-05T16:17:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zwaldd \* > **Hmmm. Kind of an interesting quiz…could make for its own thread.** Already has been - that’s where I found it. Of course, the quiz itself probably contains some kind of bias, based on its originator’s opinions. I’ve yet to meet someone who has been in the “authoritarian” camp, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/9 "2003-02-05T16:17:54Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **december** _ > Thanks for the cite, **jjimm**. It says I’m on the libertarian right. Well, there goes the credibility of another Internet resource! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/10 "2003-02-05T16:19:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*I have found the terms to be so meaningless that I, literally, do not use them anymore. You’re better off using something like “Free Market” or some other silimar term to describe a certain position that someone holds. \*\* I don’t think this would help either. E.g. I believe in a free market, but with a minimal social ‘safety net’, that is paid for by taxation. But I don’t think there should be protectionism or tarrifs. Where does that place me? ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/11 "2003-02-05T16:21:31Z")
Economic Left/Right: 1.25 Authoritarian/Libertarian: 1.54 ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/12 "2003-02-05T16:32:36Z")
Hear hear, I recommended the Political Compass to everyone I knew years ago, and I believe its cropped up a few times here. FWIW, I’m between Simon Hughes and Ghandi on the Libertarian Left. (There is also an FAQ for Americans who think there _can’t_ be a Libertarian Left). Trying to defend your own compass direction generally involves using terms as biased as the needle itself. Such defences, I have found, appeal to _compassion_ and _fairness_ to varying degrees, and place different amounts of “blame” on different parties. Hence a debate concerning how “fair” it is that a given person starved to death because it is substantially “their fault” would quickly reduced to debating the meaning of the words themselves. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/13 "2003-02-05T16:44:26Z")
Wow, I’ve just done the test again and found I’ve drifted more “towards the edge” in the last couple of years. Economic Left/Right: -5.62 (-5.00 in 2001) Authoritarian/Libertarian: -8.05 (-6.95 in 2001) Aren’t you supposed to become more conservative as you get older? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/14 "2003-02-05T17:14:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*Well, there goes the credibility of another Internet resource! 😃 \*\* Actually, libertarian right fits quite nicely with December. It means that he values economic liberty for himself and others and personal liberty for himself alone. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/15 "2003-02-05T17:49:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, libertarian right fits quite nicely with December. It means that he values economic liberty for himself and others and personal liberty for himself alone. LOL! Seriously, it was more a joke at how **december** presents his views online, which I hoped would get a grin out of him as well as everyone else, than a flame of any sort – after hitting “submit reply” I got to worrying if he or others would take it as a slam. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-vs-conservative-how-can-you-tell-if-an-idea-is-one-or-the-other/152943/16 "2003-02-05T18:15:55Z")
I am not sure if we have control over what liberal and conservative mean in social consciousness. One political party which self-identifies as liberal or conservative will choose one particular position on an issue, the other will pick the other position and they enter into a dog-fight aided and abetted by the media.