# Liberal, would you kindly give it a rest about Andrew Jackson? (mild) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 5, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347 "2008-01-05T00:17:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/41 "2008-01-05T06:34:11Z")
I do admire some things about Andrew Jackson, like the fact that he refused to polish a British officer’s boots and his opposition to the bank. He was sort of an early populist president. Also I don’t think he was that bad looking. I think they should just put random presidents on the 20 - have it be totally random. Like, some of them could have Warren Harding, and some of them Franklin Pierce, or Chester Rutherford or Pat Buchanan or whoever. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/42 "2008-01-05T06:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Theodore Roosevelt was an egotist, James Monroe owned slaves, and John Adams was a self-righteous prig. [/QUOTE] Clearly, then, the only logical choice is Taft. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/43 "2008-01-05T07:10:20Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] Not enough bad can be said about the man. It is, in fact, like telling a jewish person to stop complaining when people are praising the “GOOD THINGS” about Hitler. And I dont care a bit about goodwins law. [/quote] What is goodwins law? “Keep your mitts off the orchids”? ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/44 "2008-01-05T07:21:30Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] The Cherokee removal was wrong and tragic, but hardly in Hitler’s league. [/QUOTE] You have a right to your opinion, however wrong it may be. I’ll give you that hitler was a far more succesful scumbag. But they are both in the same league. Neither should be on our money. ---
**Author:** ![Paladud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/45 "2008-01-05T07:39:21Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] I do admire some things about Andrew Jackson, like the fact that he refused to polish a British officer’s boots and his opposition to the bank. He was sort of an early populist president. Also I don’t think he was that bad looking. I think they should just put random presidents on the 20 - have it be totally random. Like, some of them could have Warren Harding, and some of them Franklin Pierce, or Chester Rutherford or **Pat Buchanan** or whoever. [/QUOTE] I don’t think Pat Buchanan has been elected yet 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/46 "2008-01-05T08:12:41Z")
[QUOTE=Ace309] Clearly, then, the only logical choice is Taft. [/QUOTE] The bill’s not big enough. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/47 "2008-01-05T09:35:38Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] \*I see your Trail of Tears and raise you one Siege\_of\_Drogheda. Do you really want to go down this road? [/QUOTE] Dachau, in my families case. Not that we didn’t oppress our share of serfs “back in the day”, I am sure. I admire some of what Andy Jackson did and stood for, and despite his many faults he had greatness. Judging him by today’s standards is Presentism. \*\* Captain Amazing\*\* made an excellent point. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/48 "2008-01-05T10:13:36Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Dachau, in my families case. Not that we didn’t oppress our share of serfs “back in the day”, I am sure. I admire some of what Andy Jackson did and stood for, and despite his many faults he had greatness. Judging him by today’s standards is Presentism. \*\* Captain Amazing\*\* made an excellent point. [/QUOTE] To hell with that I just did a search, you’ve this nonsense before and my response then bears repeating. It has NOT A DAMN thing to do with todays standards. The murdering backstabbing bastard violated the laws and standards of HIS time. Today’s standards don’t enter into it THIS IS AS OFFENSIVE as making excuses for Hitler by saying “He made the trains run on time, and we cant judge what he did to the jews by todays standards” That this kind of apologist drivel occurs on this board makes me ill. we sure as hell can hold him to reasonable human standards. What he did was wrong. It was wrong then, and he doesnt desrve to be admired. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/49 "2008-01-05T10:28:41Z")
I am totally on **Lib** ’s side on this issue. Keep it up, old chap. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/50 "2008-01-05T11:58:10Z")
[QUOTE=AdmiralCrunch] I guess it’s better that I didn’t get around to changing my username to reflect my Nordic Heritge. Our family name was TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW [/QUOTE] Cousin toolongdidntreadidontknowjustkiddinglaughingoutloudforthewin! Where on earth have you been? Norway misses you. Spelling bees are a lot less fun, these days. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/51 "2008-01-05T12:09:58Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] Ah. It’s a good thing you took the thread to MPSIMS, then. I’m also glad you bought some punctuation, BTW, but you should think about taking one or two of those commas back for a refund. Actually, if the prices are good, you might be able to exchange them for a couple of quotation marks. On second thought, it might be safer for you to just steer clear of the punctuation store for a while. [/QUOTE] This was petty, incredibly mean-spirited, and just about the funniest thing I’ve read all week. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/52 "2008-01-05T12:28:51Z")
Considering that Jackson hated paper money, putting him on the bill that’s churned out by ATMs might be thought of as revenge. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/53 "2008-01-05T14:49:38Z")
Andrew Jackson was a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch. And while **Liberal** may be getting repetitive on the subject, he’s not wrong. It may be becoming almost a schtick for **Liberal** , but he has every right and better reason than most to keep repeating it as often as he likes. I may think he’s incomplete, in his condemnation of the man, but that’s very far from saying he’s wrong. As someone who can admire the way that the Mongols ruled their empire, while condemning them for how they gained that empire, I have to admit that there are things about Jackson I do appreciate. Even after discounting his real military contributions. If nothing else, his ability to separate the individual from the group, as shown by his adopted son. (And if you think that’s not a remarkable thing, just ask yourself this: Would John C. Calhoun ever have considered such an act?) The biggest reason that I dislike the hatred all going towards Andrew Jackson is because he then becomes a scapegoat, in the ancient sense of the word: a sacrifice for the communal guilt. Blaming any single President for the Trail of Tears ignores the reality that the US wasn’t willing (nor, do I think it was able) to police itself to respect the Cherokee land claims. And the majority of the population of the States acquiesced to this. The Trail of Tears was not imposed upon the Cherokee solely by the actions of Andrew Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/54 "2008-01-05T15:05:45Z")
Ulysses S. Grant’s Indian policies were responsible for as many or more Indian deaths than Andrew Jackson, yet I don’t hear anybody griping about Grant on the $50 bill. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/55 "2008-01-05T16:22:57Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Ulysses S. Grant’s Indian policies were responsible for as many or more Indian deaths than Andrew Jackson, yet I don’t hear anybody griping about Grant on the $50 bill. [/QUOTE] Perhaps that’s because so many of us seldom see one? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/56 "2008-01-05T16:28:40Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] making excuses for Hitler by saying "He made the trains run on time, [/QUOTE] That was Mussolini. (By the way, when you find where I defended Hitler, or even Jackson, please let me know.) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/57 "2008-01-05T16:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Perhaps that’s because so many of us seldom see one? [/QUOTE] Or perhaps it’s because it’s not fashionable to discuss Grant’s role in the decimation of Indian nations in the West in the same way that it’s intellectually fashionable to condemn Andrew Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/58 "2008-01-05T16:37:22Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Perhaps that’s because so many of us seldom see one? [/QUOTE] Hey, if this economic shit keeps up the 50 will soon be the new 20. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/59 "2008-01-05T17:05:47Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] Hey, if this economic shit keeps up the 50 will soon be the new 20. [/QUOTE] Actually, I rarely see a $20. 95% of my transactions are electronic or via checks (for rent). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347/60 "2008-01-05T17:44:14Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Or perhaps it’s because it’s not fashionable to discuss Grant’s role in the decimation of Indian nations in the West in the same way that it’s intellectually fashionable to condemn Andrew Jackson. [/QUOTE] Well, or most of the Presidents of the 18th and 19th centuries. None of them have particularly admirable records when it comes to dealing with the Indians. There’s a reason Helen Hunt Jackson called her look at US-Indian relations “A Century of Dishonor” There’s a lot of blame to go around when you’re talking about US policy toward the Indians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberal-would-you-kindly-give-it-a-rest-about-andrew-jackson-mild/432347.md?page=4)