# Liberals hate gays **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849 "2010-10-21T01:46:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/201 "2010-10-26T18:58:28Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > For all the Democratic party faults in dealing with homosexual issues, they are still nowhere near as bad as the Republicans, who actively work to do harm to homosexuals. Maybe you can better explain how actively seeking to continue to deny equal rights to homosexuals is better than not taking enough positive steps to stop the other party. But conservatives are noble heroic manly men! What they do is automatically the right and just thing and you should be proud of them for it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/202 "2010-10-26T19:00:02Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > … or find something new to get enraged about that eclipses gays… [http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/26/tea-party-nation-ellison/](http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/26/tea-party-nation-ellison/) \*\*Tea Party Nation: Vote Out Rep. Keith Ellison Because He’s Muslim And ‘Supports’ Terrorists \*\* Ask, and it shall be given! My congressman, by the way, People’s Republic of Minnesota. There are lots of pictures out there of him in Minnesota Muslim garb. Suit, tie. Mukluks. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/203 "2010-10-26T19:01:26Z")
Luci, I love ya and everything, but I can’t get behind you here. The Democrats are abandoning the gays to pander to the Latinos. In your argument, the gays should be willing to compromise or perhaps “wait their turn” because everyone is advancing together. I might be more willing to see it your way if the Democrats were actually helping anyone by validating the religious bigotry of Latinos, but I think they are actually setting everything back by doing so. When religion is allowed to direct politics, there can be no winners, only losers. Even if the Latinos are happy with the Dems and vote for them this time, the long-term damage done by continuing to allow superstitious nonsense to prevail is far greater, by showing people that bullshit religious arguments will still be allowed to carry the day. The line must be drawn. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/204 "2010-10-26T19:03:22Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > It’s a false dilemma Lucy. There’s no reason why repealing DADT will strengthen the deportation of illegal aliens. > > It’s nice to think it would. I support the AZ law. I’d call it a twofer. Its a hypothetical, **Scylla** Kind of like your conservative guy who leads the way to progress. Hard to say which is more of a stretch. But that AZ law? _Madre de DOS!_ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/205 "2010-10-26T19:05:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > _Madre de DOS!_ Hey! Watch it! My mother was a mother of two! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/206 "2010-10-26T19:05:26Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Are you taking disingenuity lessons from **gonzo**? > > No, it’s because of the push for equal rights that new generations grow up more tolerant of other people at all. Older generations aren’t going to be swayed from their set beliefs. Even today we have older folk – who vote – who casually throw about the word nigger even though they’re aware on some level that it’s unacceptable. I don’t know where you get your history from. Was the civil war the gentle generational change you are talking about? How about the civil rights movement in the 60s when hippie liberal scum like Elucidator actually did some good? Sorry, I think history indicates this sort of change is sudden and revolutionary not evolutionary. Besides, the basic bottom line is this: citizens are being withold their basic rights to equality under law just because some other people don’t like them. This country was founded under the principle of freedom which says that that level of intolerance is never to be accepted. It has nothing to do with religion or conservatism. It’s simple right versus wrong. There are sticky issues out there like abortion where there are rational arguments on both sides. There is no good reason to deny the right to marriage or to defend the country to people based on their sexual preference. None. There is no excuse for taking actions that perpetuate this injustice. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/207 "2010-10-26T19:11:21Z")
You know, I don’t disagree with you. But your side is not the side to turn to. Your side sucks worse than the Democrats when it comes to civil rights. I realize you can’t see that because you, personally, are full of nobility and patriotism and freedom and red white and blue, and naturally you think every Republican is like you. They’re not. And while you might end up with a convincing case that Democrats/liberals aren’t advancing rights for gays, given the two-party system, the implication is that the other side is therefore better. And that’s just laughable on its face. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/208 "2010-10-26T19:23:43Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Hamlet: > > Sorry I can’t quote easily, I’m posting from an iPhone in a car. I think this is different hwn your comparison of a KKK member to a moderate who did nothing. I think the more apt comparison would be between a KKK member, and a guy who joins the NAACP, and displays all the right attitudes and says all the right things but still won’t hire a black man or rent to him. > > And, I think the KKK member is better. He’s being true to his beliefs. He’s wrong, but he’s true to his beliefs. The possibility exists that if you can show him he is wrong and change his beliefs than than you can change the man. > > The other guy understands that he’s wrong, and he’s doing it anyway, and he’s hiding it, pretending he’s being true to his beliefs. I think that’s worse, and more difficult to change. Nah, it’s more like a time warp with Director Skinner telling Mulder and Skully they need to focus on finding out the source of this mysterious virus that sprung up in the Louisiana swamps. At the same time, Skully suspects some KKK members as church burners but Skinner tells her to back off and focus on the virus as he has another team investigating the church burnings. She’s pissed and so are the negros because many times the FBI puts things like organized crimes and weird alien viruses above their civil rights issues. Meanwhile the same KKK members physically harass a negro who wants to marry a white woman. They successfully block the marriage at the local courthouse and the negro thinks, “Well, I’ll take those KKK fellas over the feds any day. They’re just being true to their beliefs after all. Even though the feds have investigated other race crimes and enforced desegregation of schools, they’re just pretending to believe in civil rights. The feds hate negros. This stalling of the church burning investigation is all the proof I need. I’m just glad these nice KKK fellas didn’t string me up!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/209 "2010-10-26T19:25:39Z")
Nosedive: Laughable on it’s face. I hear that sentiment a lot from those on the left that have an interest in selling. You can repeat it all you want. It doesn’t make it true no matter how much you’d just like to make everybody believe the Republicans are evil and Democrats are good on this issue. “everybody knows” “it’s laughable” “it’s undeniable”. These assertions are most often used to to cover up lies and half truths in an absence of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/210 "2010-10-26T19:29:58Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > …How about the civil rights movement in the 60s when hippie liberal scum like Elucidator actually did some good?.. Hippy? OK, guilty as charged. Scum? Well, you know, whatever. But liberal! You take that back! I’ve still got the pictures of you and the doughnut girl. Just sayin’, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/211 "2010-10-26T19:30:57Z")
Hamlet: I don’t know why yo keep comparing Democrats with people who are “doing nothin.”. The democrats are doing something. They created DADT, and they got an emergency injunction to overturn a court decision that declared it unconstitutional. I think that counts as something more than doing nothing. Part of the reason that Democrats get away with all this shit is that they paint themselves as crusaders helping the people they are actually fucking over. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/212 "2010-10-26T19:31:40Z")
You really are sounding like **gonzo**. You’ve got better punctuation, at least. Can you point to any, _any_ conservative politician running on a platform of equal rights for gays? That’s all I ask. One. Show me one serious politician on a state or national level (local really doesn’t count when talking about civil rights) and I’ll concede it’s not undeniable nor laughable on its face. Individual conservatives may believe in civil rights, and I’m right there with them. The Republican party as a whole has been a stellar disgrace. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/213 "2010-10-26T19:33:45Z")
I just wanted to check in. Is Scylla still a fucking retard? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/214 "2010-10-26T19:43:25Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Hamlet: > > I don’t know why yo keep comparing Democrats with people who are “doing nothin.”. The democrats are doing something. They created DADT, and they got an emergency injunction to overturn a court decision that declared it unconstitutional. And, for the second time, DADT was a compromise Clinton reached with mostly Republicans who wanted to keep the entire ban and investigatory problems. It was a small step in the right direction. Nowhere near good enough, but it was something. And it was a step away from the Republican position. That’s what you just keep glossing over. In this little reality you want to create, there are only Democrats and Log Cabin Republicans, so you simply pretend the rest of the Republicans adn their actions, don’t exist. > [@Scylla](#): > > Part of the reason that Democrats get away with all this shit is that they paint themselves as crusaders helping the people they are actually fucking over. No the reason they get away with this is because the other realistic option, the Republicans, are 20 times worse. THAT’S why. Look, we’re all upset that the Obama administration and Congress are going way too slowly and in too piecemeal a fashion, on homosexual rights. But you are still kidding yourself (although thankfully no one else here) that the Republicans are any better. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/215 "2010-10-26T19:43:30Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > Luci, I love ya and everything, but I can’t get behind you here. The Democrats are abandoning the gays to pander to the Latinos. … Whoa, hold it right there! No way, Josefina! I know that’s how my words have been tiwisted, but its not what I think, and its not what I think is happening! There are some religious latinos who are uncomfortable with the whole gay marraige thing, but thats across the board, white, black, latino. But to the extent that the coalition has latino support, they already know what we think, we’ve already told them, and those who are on board are still on board. Mostly, the young, the urban, and so on. Personally, I think its the word “marriage” that sticks in their craw. I think we can build a civil union plan that offers all the same benefits but avoids the word. A compromise, to be sure. What I would ideally want if for latinos to whole-heartedly embrace gay marriage, but failing that, I’m OK with them shrugging it off, and staying on the team. But advancing an agenda centered around atheism? Boy, I dunno. I have a feeling we would certainly have Karl Rove’s enthusiastic support, but I don’t really trust him. (But thanks for the love, and backatcha.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/216 "2010-10-26T19:47:46Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > …Show me one serious politician on a state or national level (local really doesn’t count when talking about civil rights) and I’ll concede it’s not undeniable nor laughable on its face… Well, there’s Arnie. To be strictly fair, he does exist. And please don’t make me do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/217 "2010-10-26T19:50:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, there’s Arnie. To be strictly fair, he does exist. > > And please don’t make me do this again. Aha, I’d forgotten about him to be honest. But, you know, California. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/218 "2010-10-26T19:52:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Personally, I think its the word “marriage” that sticks in their craw. I think we can build a civil union plan that offers all the same benefits but avoids the word. A compromise, to be sure. What I would ideally want if for latinos to whole-heartedly embrace gay marriage, but failing that, I’m OK with them shrugging it off, and staying on the team. Well, sure you are! No one is seriously asking you to settle for a second-class institution like the good little GayTM you aren’t. No skin off your teeth. It’s just a word, after all! THIS is why so many gays are muttering to themselves “They just don’t get it!” ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/219 "2010-10-26T20:01:44Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Aha, I’d forgotten about him to be honest. But, you know, California. Ileana Ros Lehtinen (R) Fla has an 88 rating by the HRC. Susan M. Collins has a 78, as does Olympia Snowe, and there are 3 others with a 75. Sure the party has over 140 or so of Congresspersons with a rating of zero, but the Democrats have at least 7, so I suppose that balances out. [Cite](http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=3520&sort=rating&rtype=) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/220 "2010-10-26T20:06:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, here, let me help you with that. Next time you don’t quite grasp the point, next time you are confused about something I said, ask me. I’ll tell you, I’m not particularly shy about expressing my views. I will be happy to clarify. Well, that’s going to be pretty time consuming, because what you mean appears to change every time you post. Like here, for example, where you take precisely the position I ascribed to you earlier, which led to your whole “gay horse” analogy. > [@](#): > > But lets put the question, lets find out where you stand here. Suppose we made Miller a heavy leader of the coalition, one empowered to make difficult and painful decisions. Because that’s what coalition politics is about, don’t you know: difficult and painful decisions in the pursuit of justice. The kind of decisions we elected Obama to make, because we trust his judgment somewhat more than the other guy. > > And lets just do a hypothetical: you can advance your agenda to the forefront, all the members of the coalition will put it at the very top. Even in those districts where the populace is not all that friendly. And you look at the polling and the numbers, you hear from your black and latino constituents, and others who desperately need health care reform, and so on and so forth. > > Do you say to the Latinos of Arizona “Well, yes, you can be stopped on the street and taken to jail until you can prove your citizenship, but equal marriage and DADT are more important.” Or the to person who needs health care for their children “Well, yes, your children are very important, but not quite so important as my right to marriage.” That’s a pretty solid rebuttal to all the people who have been demanding that the Democratic party focus on gay rights to the exclusion of all other issues. If any of these people ever show up in this thread, this post will sure put them in their place! However, it doesn’t do much to address the concerns that have actually been raised in here, which is that we’d like the Democrats to do _something_ about gay rights. Not everything - just something. And you know, they could do that. Because you can do somethings for gay rights, and somethings for Latinos, and somethings for health care. You can do all of these at the same time. Equality isn’t a zero-sum game. You can give gays rights, and still fight for immigrants, and work on health care, and all that other stuff. > [@](#): > > Of course you wouldn’t. It would destroy our fragile advantage and offer aid and comfort to our enemies. We would all lose, and you would gain nothing. Really? So, you’re saying that if we did nothing at all for Latinos, then Latinos would leave our coalition? And the same for blacks? And people who need health care? Fascinating. So… why doesn’t the same logic apply to gays? Why are gays the one group who you expect to suck it up and let their agenda be ignored, while everyone else gets their concerns addressed? Why are you, our so called “ally,” treating us like shit, and yelling at us for not smiling while you do it? > [@](#): > > Am I wrong about that? WWMD? What would **Miller** do? Suppose that you were convinced that moving your concerns to the “back burner” were necessary, to advance the larger cause. Would you do it? Do you have the courage to make such hard choices, if they prove necessary? You know, my issue has been on the back burner for my entire adult life. If a chance came along to jump ship to an organization that was actually willing to work (and work successfully) to help out me and mine, I might take it. Not because I don’t care about other issues - I do care, believe me. But maybe it’s time for someone else to spend some time on the back burner. Yeah, the Arizona immigration law sucks, and should be changed. But if, for some reason, it became a choice between one or the other: get gay marriage now, or repeal Arizona’s law, I’ll take gay marriage. Sorry, Latinos, I guess its your turn to wait for your rights, for a change. > [@](#): > > How about you, what level of loyalty to the overall cause can we expect from you? As in everything, you will receive loyalty in measure with the loyalty you dispense. How much loyalty have you shown to gays? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849.md?page=12)