# Liberals hate gays **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849 "2010-10-21T01:46:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/461 "2010-10-31T17:36:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Would someone explicate the concept of “facial challenge” … Bueller? … Can I be Bueller? > [@](#): > > In the context of American jurisprudence, a facial challenge is a manner of challenging a statute in court, in which the plaintiff alleges that the statute is always, and under all circumstances, unconstitutional, and therefore void. It is contrasted with an as-applied challenge, which alleges that the statute may be, in part, unconstitutional, in redress of specific and particular injury. … > … If a facial challenge is successful, a court will declare the statute in question facially invalid, which has the effect of striking it down entirely. This contrasts with a successful as-applied challenge, which will result in a court narrowing the circumstances in which the statute may constitutionally be applied without striking it down. In some cases … a facial challenge has been rejected with either the court or concurring Justices intimating that the upheld statute might be vulnerable to an as-applied challenge. …[RIGHT][CITE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_challenge)[/RIGHT] (If I am Bueller then why would I bother typing when I can just copy and paste?) CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/462 "2010-10-31T18:39:25Z")
All well and good, but I’m concerned that some of our lesser minds might not grasp the relevance. Indeed, the esteemed Constitutional scholar Mr. Ben Adler makes no mention of it in his definitive work in that widely respected journal of constitutional law, _Newsweek._ But President Obama appears to think it of some importance, as quoted above, and I should like that broken down into smaller bits for our less well-informed. Which, of course, I would do at once, if I were not so busy sewing these drapes into a fancy gown for the Pissy Bitches Ball… ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/463 "2010-10-31T23:37:34Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > It’s a valid point. I think it’s easier to work with a sincere enemy (putting aside Miller’s objection for the moment,) than an insincere friend who may turn on you. You have the opportunity to reason with an enemy and possibly change their mind. It’s hard to have a dialogue with somebody who’s disingenuous though. That does make sense to me. At least with an outright foe you can have some level of certainty that any points they make or compromises they come to they’ll stick to, in the sense that they’re quite open about how much they don’t like it. If I had the choice between making a deal with someone who’s lied to me for years, and someone who merely hates me, as much as the second might be more difficult at least if we came to some end agreement i’d be able to trust it more. But I do think in this sort of situation it’s not really a matter of insincerity vs. animosity - after all, people who dislike me for who I am might well consider it ok to lie to me, too. I mean, if you flip it around, I can at least trust that the first foe will be untrustworthy. I can assume it and plan ahead for that eventuality; I can look at their history and see what lies they might tell, I can bring up their lies in a discussion if I want them to stop. I can even refuse to discuss an issue with them at all, if my certainty of the uselessness of it is strong enough. In a sense, i’m forewarned about their duplicity and can plan for it, as unhappy a task as that is. With the hateful foe, i’m forewarned about their dislike, but they, too, might lie to me, and i’m less prepared for that. To the extent it’s difficult to have a dialogue with somebody who’s disingenuous, it’s even harder still to have one with somebody who’s disingenuous without your knowledge. But that’s less a point about which poison is potentially worst and more which poison is easiest to deal with, so it’s a bit off point. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/464 "2010-11-01T04:49:32Z")
I’m going to have to abandon this thread due to a death in the family. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/465 "2010-11-01T10:30:27Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m going to have to abandon this thread due to a death in the family. > > Sorry. Condolences to you and yours. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/466 "2010-11-01T18:29:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And so DADT sticks around for another four or five years, because doing the right thing by gays doesn’t fit into the Democrat’s political calculus. Even if a DADT repeal fails in congress and Obama’s justice department “defends” the law, there is still the chance that the higher court sustains the lower court decision. So all is not lost. Overall I think it is in the gay’s long term best interest to have this repealed/struck down the right way so as to indicate the rightness of their cause, rather than by fiat which can be discarded as a partisan ploy. But I recognize that as a straight man I have less at stake, and so can afford to be more patient. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/467 "2010-11-01T23:17:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m going to have to abandon this thread due to a death in the family. > > Sorry. Our best to you and yours. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/468 "2010-11-01T23:43:31Z")
The OP being unavailable, may I respectfully suggest that the thread be closed, as a gesture of unanimous sympathy? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/469 "2010-12-18T20:41:25Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t really give a shot how many democrats vote in favor of a bill that is **doomed by foregone conclusion** , just so that they can tick off “supports gay rights” box on their bios. > > Because that’s all they’re doing. That’s all they’ve been doing for years. They create these bills that **have no chance whatsoever** and then they take turns supporting them so that they look sympathetic to gay rights. **Nothing ever happens** except that they get to claim they’re progressive on the issue. Big fucking deal. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha. That’s right, it’s “doomed”; it has “no chance.” “Nothing ever happens.” > [@Scylla](#): > > Here we have specific Republicans fighting for gay rights and specific democrats fighting against them. Democrats maybe being generally nicer in the past has no bearing. Breakdown of voting to invoke cloture on the DADT issue: Yeas: ```auto Akaka (D-HI) Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Begich (D-AK) Bennet (D-CO) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Brown (D-OH) Brown (R-MA) Cantwell (D-WA) Cardin (D-MD) Carper (D-DE) Casey (D-PA) Collins (R-ME) Conrad (D-ND) Coons (D-DE) Dodd (D-CT) Dorgan (D-ND) Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Feinstein (D-CA) Franken (D-MN) Gillibrand (D-NY) Hagan (D-NC) Harkin (D-IA) Inouye (D-HI) Johnson (D-SD) Kerry (D-MA) Kirk (R-IL) Klobuchar (D-MN) Kohl (D-WI) Landrieu (D-LA) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Lieberman (ID-CT) Lincoln (D-AR) McCaskill (D-MO) Menendez (D-NJ) Merkley (D-OR) Mikulski (D-MD) Murkowski (R-AK) Murray (D-WA) Nelson (D-FL) Nelson (D-NE) Pryor (D-AR) Reed (D-RI) Reid (D-NV) Rockefeller (D-WV) Sanders (I-VT) Schumer (D-NY) Shaheen (D-NH) Snowe (R-ME) Specter (D-PA) Stabenow (D-MI) Tester (D-MT) Udall (D-CO) Udall (D-NM) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (D-VA) Webb (D-VA) Whitehouse (D-RI) Wyden (D-OR) ``` Nays: ```auto Alexander (R-TN) Barrasso (R-WY) Bennett (R-UT) Bond (R-MO) Brownback (R-KS) Burr (R-NC) Chambliss (R-GA) Coburn (R-OK) Cochran (R-MS) Corker (R-TN) Cornyn (R-TX) Crapo (R-ID) DeMint (R-SC) Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA) Hutchison (R-TX) Inhofe (R-OK) Isakson (R-GA) Johanns (R-NE) Kyl (R-AZ) LeMieux (R-FL) Lugar (R-IN) McCain (R-AZ) McConnell (R-KY) Risch (R-ID) Roberts (R-KS) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL) Thune (R-SD) Vitter (R-LA) Wicker (R-MS) ``` Not voting: ```auto Bunning (R-KY) Gregg (R-NH) Hatch (R-UT) Manchin (D-WV) ``` I eagerly await the OP’s explanation of why the 55 Democrats in the Yay column and the 33 Republicans in the Nay column mean nothing, and why the 6 Republicans in the Yay column and the 1 non-voting Democrat constitute conclusive evidence that liberals hate gays and conservatives are better on gay rights rights issues. > [@Scylla](#): > > There’s also GOProud, on top of the Log Cabin Republican (figuratively, of course.). > > All these Republican groups fighting for civil rights, and conservative judges declaring discriminatory laws unconstitutional, and all these Democratic doing their best to create uphold, and delay the repeal of these discriminatory laws… Yeah, those Democrats really sat on their hands this time, didn’t they? I guess Obama might prove that he hates gays by refusing to sign it, though, right? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/470 "2010-12-18T21:02:01Z")
If you want to give the Republicans a little more credit, it’s worth noting that Burr and Ensign, who voted “nay” on cloture, voted “yea” on the repeal itself. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/471 "2010-12-18T21:05:52Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > If you want to give the Republicans a little more credit, it’s worth noting that Burr and Ensign, who voted “nay” on cloture, voted “yea” on the repeal itself. I did notice that, although, in the spirit of the OP, it would seem fair to conclude that their vote on the repeal was simply a self-serving decision to pile onto the winning team. After all, why vote to prevent cloture if you don’t hate gays? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/472 "2010-12-19T01:39:22Z")
Im very glad to have been wrong. I think it’s a better day for our country because of this. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/473 "2010-12-19T02:16:18Z")
My favorite line in this was something about Democrats giving into “special interest groups.” As if Republicans NEVER EVER NEVER NEVER EVER do ANYTHING for Special Interest groups. As if gay haters are not a special interest group. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/474 "2010-12-20T17:40:35Z")
Different kind of special. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/475 "2010-12-20T17:47:15Z")
And interest. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849/476 "2010-12-20T21:00:37Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Im very glad to have been wrong. I think it’s a better day for our country because of this. Oh, so you think being classy will save you from being an asshole? Forget it, hoss. I been classy dozens of times, still an asshole. Get used to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-hate-gays/557849.md?page=23)