But conservatives are noble heroic manly men! What they do is automatically the right and just thing and you should be proud of them for it.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/26/tea-party-nation-ellison/
**Tea Party Nation: Vote Out Rep. Keith Ellison Because He’s Muslim And ‘Supports’ Terrorists **
Ask, and it shall be given!
My congressman, by the way, People’s Republic of Minnesota. There are lots of pictures out there of him in Minnesota Muslim garb. Suit, tie. Mukluks.
Luci, I love ya and everything, but I can’t get behind you here. The Democrats are abandoning the gays to pander to the Latinos. In your argument, the gays should be willing to compromise or perhaps “wait their turn” because everyone is advancing together. I might be more willing to see it your way if the Democrats were actually helping anyone by validating the religious bigotry of Latinos, but I think they are actually setting everything back by doing so. When religion is allowed to direct politics, there can be no winners, only losers. Even if the Latinos are happy with the Dems and vote for them this time, the long-term damage done by continuing to allow superstitious nonsense to prevail is far greater, by showing people that bullshit religious arguments will still be allowed to carry the day. The line must be drawn.
Its a hypothetical, Scylla Kind of like your conservative guy who leads the way to progress. Hard to say which is more of a stretch.
But that AZ law? Madre de DOS!
Hey! Watch it! My mother was a mother of two!
I don’t know where you get your history from. Was the civil war the gentle generational change you are talking about?
How about the civil rights movement in the 60s when hippie liberal scum like Elucidator actually did some good?
Sorry, I think history indicates this sort of change is sudden and revolutionary not evolutionary.
Besides, the basic bottom line is this: citizens are being withold their basic rights to equality under law just because some other people don’t like them.
This country was founded under the principle of freedom which says that that level of intolerance is never to be accepted. It has nothing to do with religion or conservatism. It’s simple right versus wrong.
There are sticky issues out there like abortion where there are rational arguments on both sides. There is no good reason to deny the right to marriage or to defend the country to people based on their sexual preference. None.
There is no excuse for taking actions that perpetuate this injustice. Period.
You know, I don’t disagree with you. But your side is not the side to turn to. Your side sucks worse than the Democrats when it comes to civil rights.
I realize you can’t see that because you, personally, are full of nobility and patriotism and freedom and red white and blue, and naturally you think every Republican is like you. They’re not. And while you might end up with a convincing case that Democrats/liberals aren’t advancing rights for gays, given the two-party system, the implication is that the other side is therefore better. And that’s just laughable on its face.
Nah, it’s more like a time warp with Director Skinner telling Mulder and Skully they need to focus on finding out the source of this mysterious virus that sprung up in the Louisiana swamps. At the same time, Skully suspects some KKK members as church burners but Skinner tells her to back off and focus on the virus as he has another team investigating the church burnings. She’s pissed and so are the negros because many times the FBI puts things like organized crimes and weird alien viruses above their civil rights issues.
Meanwhile the same KKK members physically harass a negro who wants to marry a white woman. They successfully block the marriage at the local courthouse and the negro thinks, “Well, I’ll take those KKK fellas over the feds any day. They’re just being true to their beliefs after all. Even though the feds have investigated other race crimes and enforced desegregation of schools, they’re just pretending to believe in civil rights. The feds hate negros. This stalling of the church burning investigation is all the proof I need. I’m just glad these nice KKK fellas didn’t string me up!” 
Nosedive:
Laughable on it’s face. I hear that sentiment a lot from those on the left that have an interest in selling. You can repeat it all you want. It doesn’t make it true no matter how much you’d just like to make everybody believe the Republicans are evil and Democrats are good on this issue.
“everybody knows” “it’s laughable” “it’s undeniable”. These assertions are most often used to to cover up lies and half truths in an absence of evidence.
Hippy? OK, guilty as charged. Scum? Well, you know, whatever. But liberal! You take that back! I’ve still got the pictures of you and the doughnut girl. Just sayin’, is all.
Hamlet:
I don’t know why yo keep comparing Democrats with people who are “doing nothin.”. The democrats are doing something. They created DADT, and they got an emergency injunction to overturn a court decision that declared it unconstitutional.
I think that counts as something more than doing nothing.
Part of the reason that Democrats get away with all this shit is that they paint themselves as crusaders helping the people they are actually fucking over.
You really are sounding like gonzo. You’ve got better punctuation, at least.
Can you point to any, any conservative politician running on a platform of equal rights for gays? That’s all I ask. One. Show me one serious politician on a state or national level (local really doesn’t count when talking about civil rights) and I’ll concede it’s not undeniable nor laughable on its face.
Individual conservatives may believe in civil rights, and I’m right there with them. The Republican party as a whole has been a stellar disgrace.
I just wanted to check in. Is Scylla still a fucking retard?
And, for the second time, DADT was a compromise Clinton reached with mostly Republicans who wanted to keep the entire ban and investigatory problems. It was a small step in the right direction. Nowhere near good enough, but it was something.
And it was a step away from the Republican position. That’s what you just keep glossing over. In this little reality you want to create, there are only Democrats and Log Cabin Republicans, so you simply pretend the rest of the Republicans adn their actions, don’t exist.
No the reason they get away with this is because the other realistic option, the Republicans, are 20 times worse. THAT’S why.
Look, we’re all upset that the Obama administration and Congress are going way too slowly and in too piecemeal a fashion, on homosexual rights. But you are still kidding yourself (although thankfully no one else here) that the Republicans are any better.
Whoa, hold it right there! No way, Josefina! I know that’s how my words have been tiwisted, but its not what I think, and its not what I think is happening! There are some religious latinos who are uncomfortable with the whole gay marraige thing, but thats across the board, white, black, latino. But to the extent that the coalition has latino support, they already know what we think, we’ve already told them, and those who are on board are still on board. Mostly, the young, the urban, and so on.
Personally, I think its the word “marriage” that sticks in their craw. I think we can build a civil union plan that offers all the same benefits but avoids the word. A compromise, to be sure. What I would ideally want if for latinos to whole-heartedly embrace gay marriage, but failing that, I’m OK with them shrugging it off, and staying on the team.
But advancing an agenda centered around atheism? Boy, I dunno. I have a feeling we would certainly have Karl Rove’s enthusiastic support, but I don’t really trust him.
(But thanks for the love, and backatcha.)
Well, there’s Arnie. To be strictly fair, he does exist.
And please don’t make me do this again.
Aha, I’d forgotten about him to be honest. But, you know, California.
Well, sure you are! No one is seriously asking you to settle for a second-class institution like the good little GayTM you aren’t. No skin off your teeth. It’s just a word, after all!
THIS is why so many gays are muttering to themselves “They just don’t get it!”
Ileana Ros Lehtinen (R) Fla has an 88 rating by the HRC. Susan M. Collins has a 78, as does Olympia Snowe, and there are 3 others with a 75. Sure the party has over 140 or so of Congresspersons with a rating of zero, but the Democrats have at least 7, so I suppose that balances out.
Well, that’s going to be pretty time consuming, because what you mean appears to change every time you post. Like here, for example, where you take precisely the position I ascribed to you earlier, which led to your whole “gay horse” analogy.
That’s a pretty solid rebuttal to all the people who have been demanding that the Democratic party focus on gay rights to the exclusion of all other issues. If any of these people ever show up in this thread, this post will sure put them in their place! However, it doesn’t do much to address the concerns that have actually been raised in here, which is that we’d like the Democrats to do something about gay rights. Not everything - just something. And you know, they could do that. Because you can do somethings for gay rights, and somethings for Latinos, and somethings for health care. You can do all of these at the same time. Equality isn’t a zero-sum game. You can give gays rights, and still fight for immigrants, and work on health care, and all that other stuff.
Really? So, you’re saying that if we did nothing at all for Latinos, then Latinos would leave our coalition? And the same for blacks? And people who need health care? Fascinating. So… why doesn’t the same logic apply to gays? Why are gays the one group who you expect to suck it up and let their agenda be ignored, while everyone else gets their concerns addressed? Why are you, our so called “ally,” treating us like shit, and yelling at us for not smiling while you do it?
You know, my issue has been on the back burner for my entire adult life. If a chance came along to jump ship to an organization that was actually willing to work (and work successfully) to help out me and mine, I might take it. Not because I don’t care about other issues - I do care, believe me. But maybe it’s time for someone else to spend some time on the back burner. Yeah, the Arizona immigration law sucks, and should be changed. But if, for some reason, it became a choice between one or the other: get gay marriage now, or repeal Arizona’s law, I’ll take gay marriage. Sorry, Latinos, I guess its your turn to wait for your rights, for a change.
As in everything, you will receive loyalty in measure with the loyalty you dispense. How much loyalty have you shown to gays?