# "Liberals make the best capitalists" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326 "2011-10-30T22:53:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/1 "2011-10-30T22:53:29Z")
I was talking to a conservative friend of mine about Steve Jobs a few days ago when he admitted surprise to learn that Jobs was a liberal. So I told him as a matter of fact that liberals make the best capitalists - citing Buffett, Gates, Ellison, Brin and Page (the Google guys), Soros, Woz, Allen, - pretty much filling out the top of the Forbes list. So of course he went into denial “That is just a coincidence”. Is it? I argued that liberals are by nature skeptics who reject convention, they tend to embrace the new, are forward thinking, and more inclined to seek solutions for uncommon problems. I consider the argument won. But maybe my adversary was just not up to the task. Any takers here? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/2 "2011-10-30T23:12:21Z")
I’d say that liberals make the best _entrepreneurs_, maybe. That’s not exactly the same thing as a capitalist. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/3 "2011-10-30T23:18:53Z")
Conservatives are the best bankers? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/4 "2011-10-30T23:24:59Z")
Liberal thinkers might excel at certain functions within capitalism. The marketing of cutting-edge technology entails envisioning how lives would be different with that technology. Being a traditional, cultural conservative might be a handicap for this. But I would not agree with the OP premise - as has been pointed out, the examples given in the OP are all of a fairly narrow category of capitalist. The stealathon in the financial sector over the last few decades has shattered a lot of previous assumptions about the makeup of people who run the banks. But bankers used to be the people who took the least risks, which is one definition (among many) of ‘conservative’. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/5 "2011-10-30T23:27:17Z")
The OP is pretty weak. First, how are you defining capitalist, and how are you determining who is liberal and who is conservative? Secondly, why did you cherry pick those guys? How about listing the top 100 and telling us what their political affiliation is. And then do this world-wide, because if liberals were the best capitalists, I’d expect to find the best ones in the more liberal European countries like Sweden or France. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/6 "2011-10-30T23:28:55Z")
The current crop of bankers didn’t take risks, either. They gave risks. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/7 "2011-10-30T23:35:17Z")
Jobs was purely a capitalist, he sure didnt like giving away any of his money. But I bet he wasn’t as liberal as a Buffett in the sense I don’t think Jobs would have willingly wanted to pay more in taxes. This is based on his donation levels both to charity, political parties through his life. Actually I would argue that most may be democrat but not really that far to the left to them its about protecting what is important to them, regardless of the party. Based a lot of my assumptions for that last sentence on this [http://newamericangazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Campaign-Contributions-of-20-richest-people.pdf](http://newamericangazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Campaign-Contributions-of-20-richest-people.pdf) \*Bill Gates, Christy Walton, Steve Ballmer all mark Democrat but gave about the same amounts to both parties. ---
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/8 "2011-10-30T23:43:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The OP is pretty weak. First, how are you defining capitalist, and how are you determining who is liberal and who is conservative? Secondly, why did you cherry pick those guys? How about listing the top 100 and telling us what their political affiliation is. And then do this world-wide, because if liberals were the best capitalists, I’d expect to find the best ones in the more liberal European countries like Sweden or France. Capitalism = creation/production of goods for private profit (as broad as possible). I am certain the top 100 in the US would trend strongly liberal - excluding those who merely inherited their fortune (the Walton family members). As for “liberal” that is pretty self-evident by political donations or public policy positions. Michael Dell is conservative for example - based purely on donations. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/9 "2011-10-30T23:43:57Z")
Modern American conservatives are irrational extremists; worse, much of their extremism revolves around economic issues. The robber barons of the past were by modern standards economic liberals. What Americans call “liberals” are more rational and moderate. “Liberals” can be therefore expected to be better capitalists, and better at most everything else. Now, if it was a matter of comparing right wing extremists and left wing extremists the matter would be more up in the air. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/10 "2011-10-30T23:51:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Modern American conservatives are irrational extremists; worse, much of their extremism revolves around economic issues. The robber barons of the past were by modern standards economic liberals. . They were laissez-faire capitalists mostly so outside of the more extreme Tea Partiers and Libertarians Republicans who support even a minimum of regulation or welfare are a good deal moderate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/11 "2011-10-31T00:00:52Z")
> [@Linden\_Arden](#): > > I am certain the top 100 in the US would trend strongly liberal - excluding those who merely inherited their fortune (the Walton family members). Then it should be easy to prove it to those of us who are not so certain. This Great Debates, where you have to back up your assertions with data and/or cites. No one is going to just take your word for it. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/12 "2011-10-31T00:02:04Z")
> [@Linden\_Arden](#): > > Capitalism = creation/production of goods for private profit (as broad as possible). > > **I am certain the top 100 in the US would trend strongly liberal - excluding those who merely inherited their fortune (the Walton family members)**. > > As for “liberal” that is pretty self-evident by political donations or public policy positions. Michael Dell is conservative for example - based purely on donations. I’d love to see a cite on the bolded part. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/13 "2011-10-31T00:04:19Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > They were laissez-faire capitalists mostly so outside of the more extreme Tea Partiers and Libertarians Republicans who support even a minimum of regulation or welfare are a good deal moderate. The Republicans & Right in general are _completely_ laissez-faire, opposing all legal or moral restrictions on anything done for profit, and often equate financial success with moral worth and the favor of God. They hate any and all forms of public aid except those that help them, personally. The robber barons didn’t have as huge a pay gap between themselves and their employees, and often acknowledged that people had to have money to buy their products. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/14 "2011-10-31T00:06:55Z")
I would support the OP. Conservatives would rather enhance their bottom line with a tax cut, or downsizing, or other financial gimmick, rather than actually working harder, or taking more risk, or creating new products and services. Yes, liberals are better at capitalism. They know how to create wealth. Conservatives just redistribute it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/15 "2011-10-31T00:10:42Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I’d love to see a cite on the bolded part. So would I. I also thought it interesting that the OP simply matter of faculty declared both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates to be “liberals” without a shred of evidence. In fact, it seems to me that they gave to both parties equally and if they were Democrats(a really big If) they were Bill Clinton Democrats which is dramatically different from being “Liberal”. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/16 "2011-10-31T00:12:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’d say that liberals make the best _entrepreneurs_, maybe. That’s not exactly the same thing as a capitalist. _Maaaaaaybe_ this. Though I doubt it. The Koch brothers are highly successful capitalists, if increase in net worth is how we’re measuring success. I think being extremely successful in business makes one tend towards conservativism, as you don’t want to see what you’ve built slip through your fingers. The status quo becomes quite comforting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/17 "2011-10-31T00:14:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I would support the OP. Conservatives would rather enhance their bottom line with a tax cut, or downsizing, or other financial gimmick, rather than actually working harder, or taking more risk, or creating new products and services. > > Yes, liberals are better at capitalism. They know how to create wealth. Conservatives just redistribute it. :rolleyes: I would not support the OP. Liberals would rather get a government handout, if they’re not out protesting something or other, rather than working hard and taking risk or creating new products and services. Conservatives are better capitalists. They know how to crate wealth. Liberals just redistribute it. Wow, that was easy. Just make wild assertions without anything to back them up. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/18 "2011-10-31T00:19:17Z")
I really have to post cites that conservatives like tax cuts? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/19 "2011-10-31T00:28:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I really have to post cites that conservatives like tax cuts? I really have to post cites that liberals like government handouts? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326/20 "2011-10-31T00:29:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I really have to post cites that liberals like government handouts? Who asked you to? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-make-the-best-capitalists/601326.md?page=2)