# Liberals, Progressives, or Democrats, can we get over 'The Democrat Party?' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186 "2014-05-24T16:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/221 "2014-05-27T19:41:53Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Kinda, but not really. I am channeling \*\*Bricker \*\*here but while I agree that if a self-identified label is requested it should be honored based on courtesy, this should be applied consistently and anyone that takes offense to “Democrat Party” should be equally aghast at other bastardizations of group labels. Otherwise they are open to charges of hypocrisy. It’s a large part of being highly partisan. The other side is always worse. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/222 "2014-05-27T19:53:46Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Kinda, but not really. I am channeling \*\*Bricker \*\*here but while I agree that if a self-identified label is requested it should be honored based on courtesy, this should be applied consistently and anyone that takes offense to “Democrat Party” should be equally aghast at other bastardizations of group labels. Otherwise they are open to charges of hypocrisy. If I throw an epithet into what I claim to be an honest, polite debate, then I should absolutely get called on it and judged accordingly. If we’re screaming at each other in an argument in the pit, I would be surprised if no one called the other names. If you’re calling names or using disparaging terms, get called on it (or have been called on it before), and continue to use them? Don’t expect someone to take your claims of innocent use seriously. And if it escalates from there, claiming disingenuously that you’re just using a term that makes grammatical sense is pure bullshit. That’s about it for me. It doesn’t hurt my feelings if someone uses it. But if you use it on purpose, own it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/223 "2014-05-27T19:57:07Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > That’s about it for me. It doesn’t hurt my feelings if someone uses it. But if you use it on purpose, own it. > [@Bone](#): > > If the complaint is that it’s uncouth to not admit to the rudeness, then somehow saying “Democrat Party” is bad, but saying “asshole party” is okay? Does that about sum up your particular objection (as differentiated from others’)? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/224 "2014-05-27T19:59:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Does that about sum up your particular objection (as differentiated from others’)? I think they are saying they would prefer “Democrap Party” to “Democrat Party”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/225 "2014-05-27T20:01:19Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Does that about sum up your particular objection (as differentiated from others’)? Yep. Because the one is an attempt to hide the intent, and that’s stupid. I mean, you might get dinged on this board if you say “the asshole party.” Which is one of the things people are trying to avoid by batting their eyes and claiming it’s just not disparaging at all. They wouldn’t be able to hide it if they were using “asshole” so they won’t use asshole. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/226 "2014-05-27T20:03:18Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Kinda, but not really. I am channeling \*\*Bricker \*\*here but while I agree that if a self-identified label is requested it should be honored based on courtesy, this should be applied consistently and anyone that takes offense to “Democrat Party” should be equally aghast at other bastardizations of group labels. Otherwise they are open to charges of hypocrisy. No one (no one I’ve noticed, anyway) is taking offense. It is truly a trivial slight. We are though noting that “Democrat party” is intended to be offensive. And that is fine, as long as name calling in general is fine, as in the Pit. What isn’t fine is using it to denigrate, in a place where politeness should inhibit epithets, but then making the excuse that such shouldn’t be offensive because \. When offense is intended, for bog’s sake, own it! Don’t weasel around with bullshit. You’re not using it in some honest but pedantic attempt to correct grammatical usage. You’re using it hoping to get somebody’s goat. The excuses are as childish, and as transparent, as the “I’m not touching you!!” crap kids pull in the back seat on long car trips. (Or am I displaying my age? Are today’s kids too busy playing video games to torment their siblings?) The only acceptable excuse (other than owning it as intentionally offensive) is the “didn’t know better” defense. And in such a case, being corrected on the official name of the party should draw a reply like “Oh. I didn’t know.” Not “Yeah, but it’s really the correct way to say it, and anyway your side does it too!” ETA - the generic ‘you’ is intended here. I’m not accusing **Bone** of any particular action. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/227 "2014-05-27T20:06:41Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > No one (no one I’ve noticed, anyway) is taking offense. Then how can something be “offensive” if no one is taking offense? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/228 "2014-05-27T20:15:30Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Then how can something be “offensive” if no one is taking offense? Offense is in the intention. Just as trolls are banned from the SDMB even if no one has a chance to rise to their bait. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/229 "2014-05-27T20:16:41Z")
Yup. The issue here is not whether it’s okay to use obvious insults like “Democrap” or “Teabagger” or “cretin” or “asshole” for one’s political opponents. The issue is that _if you deliberately use an incorrect name for an individual or organization when referring to them, **that is discourteous** _. If you want to do it anyway because you like being a bit of a dick, hey, knock yourself out. It’s merely a slight discourtesy, and nobody is really losing any sleep over it. But you don’t get to pretend that it’s not a discourteous thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/230 "2014-05-27T20:24:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I think they are saying they would prefer “Democrap Party” to “Democrat Party”. Absolutely. It’s an honest insult, not asshole passive-aggressive, trying to be cute, but actually being stupid, insult. The Democratic Party should not be immune from insults. This board, however, should be free from dishonest, feigned ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/231 "2014-05-27T20:37:16Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Absolutely. It’s an honest insult, not asshole passive-aggressive, trying to be cute, but actually being stupid, insult. The Democratic Party should not be immune from insults. This board, however, should be free from dishonest, feigned ignorance. Exactly. I prefer an honest insult like “Libtard” to “Democrat Party”. It’s not nearly so weaselly. Please, we already know you despise us. It’s the feigned innocence that’s icky. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/232 "2014-05-27T20:47:28Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Exactly. I prefer an honest insult like “Libtard” to “Democrat Party”. It’s not nearly so weaselly. > > Please, we already know you despise us. It’s the feigned innocence that’s icky. “Icky”. Like you’re a 10-year-old. If you already know we despise you, and that we call your party “Democrat Party” because of that, then just take “Democrat Party” in the (perceived by you) spirit it is offered. Especially since you’re not offended by it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/233 "2014-05-27T20:56:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If you already know we despise you, and that we call your party “Democrat Party” because of that, then just take “Democrat Party” in the (perceived by you) spirit it is offered. It’s not a matter of perception. If someone calls an individual or organization by an incorrect name even though they know it’s incorrect, they are being rude. Only mildly rude, but still rude. If they deliberately choose to continue that rudeness even after their error is pointed out to them, they are being a dick. Only a bit of a dick, but still a dick. The Republicans’ problem is that they want to continue being a bit dickish to Democrats about this but not have anybody point out that they’re being a bit of a dick. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/234 "2014-05-27T20:56:37Z")
It’s especially neat to see Terr trying oh-so hard to come up with some way to justify acting like a jerk rather than just own up to being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/235 "2014-05-27T20:57:57Z")
I take offense at it. There’s nothing I can do about it, of course, and I can’t make anybody stop doing it, but it bothers me, especially when its used by people I respect, like some of the people in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/236 "2014-05-27T20:58:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s not a matter of perception. If someone calls an individual or organization by an incorrect name even though they know it’s incorrect, they are being rude. Only mildly rude, but still rude. And you would prefer that they would be fully rude by saying “Democrap Party”? > [@](#): > > If they deliberately choose to continue that rudeness even after their error is pointed out to them, they are being a dick. Only a bit of a dick, but still a dick. Yes. Cuz no one on this board is a dick. Ever. Right? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/237 "2014-05-27T21:03:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Icky”. Like you’re a 10-year-old. If you already know we despise you, and that we call your party “Democrat Party” because of that, then just take “Democrat Party” in the (perceived by you) spirit it is offered. Especially since you’re not offended by it. It’s offered as a weaselly, passive-aggressive attempt to be insulting. I’m just pointing that out. Instead of making up silly rationalizations about how hard it is to remember the real name of the party, Republicans should just own it: “Yeah, we’re kind of jerks. We say trollish things just to get a rise out of people.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/238 "2014-05-27T21:04:49Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Instead of making up silly rationalizations about how hard it is to remember the real name of the party, Republicans should just own it: “Yeah, we’re kind of jerks. We say trollish things just to get a rise out of people.” Is that why Democrats refer to “shrub” or “teabaggers” or “repugs” or “faux news”? Because they’re kind of jerks? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/239 "2014-05-27T21:05:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And you would prefer that they would be fully rude by saying “Democrap Party”? If Republicans want to be rude to Democrats, that’s up to them. But they shouldn’t try to pretend that they’re not being rude when they are. That’s dickish. > [@Terr](#): > > Cuz no one on this board is a dick. Ever. Right? Sure they are. My point is just that one way to be a dick is to use an incorrect version of somebody else’s name when you know it’s incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/240 "2014-05-27T21:08:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Is that why Democrats refer to “shrub” or “teabaggers” or “repugs” or “faux news”? Because they’re kind of jerks? Yup, those are totally jerkish things to do. That’s why some of us refrain from doing them. But you don’t see anyone pretending that saying such things is an honest mistake. Or that logically it makes more sense to call Fox News “faux news”. That would be stupid. Come on, just own it. You say “Democrat Party” to needle people. You know you do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186.md?page=13)