# Liberals, Progressives, or Democrats, can we get over 'The Democrat Party?' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186 "2014-05-24T16:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/81 "2014-05-26T00:03:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are quite a few “Democrat parties” around the world. Like “Sweden Democrat party”. Or Canadian “Christian Democrat Party”. There is not one “Republic Party”. Wrong again. For example, there’s the “People’s Republic Party” of Guyana, the “Muslim People’s Republic Party” and “Islamic Republic Party” of Iran, the “Indonesian Republic Party” of guess where, the “Archipelago Republic Party” also of Indonesia, etc. On the bright side (at least as far as partisan rhetoric is concerned), widespread Republican insistence on using the wrong term for the Democratic Party seems to be causing a number of Republicans to believe that that’s the party’s actual name, which just makes them look dumb and/or ill-informed when the issue is clarified. More than once in conversations with Republicans I’ve referred in passing to the “Democratic Party” only to have them “correct” me by saying, “Actually, its real name is the ‘Democrat Party’” and be rather taken aback when they find out that actually, it isn’t. As with many other memes that thrive in the closed environment of the conservative-misinformation bubble (like the alleged contraceptive effects of “legitimate rape”, or the historical coexistence of dinosaurs and humans, or Charles Darwin’s renouncing evolution on his deathbed, and others too numerous to mention), the primary effect of Republicans maintaining that the Democratic Party is called the “Democrat Party” is simply to make Republicans themselves look stupid when it becomes clear that they actually believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/82 "2014-05-26T00:35:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > the primary effect of Republicans maintaining that the Democratic Party is called the “Democrat Party” is simply to make Republicans themselves look stupid when it becomes clear that they actually believe it. You keep telling yourselves that 🙂 Frank Luntz disagrees. And I think he’s more of an expert. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/83 "2014-05-26T00:48:23Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you call the members of your party “Democrats” and then are surprised if someone refers to it as the “Democrat Party” you might wish to consider than maybe your name choice was ill advised. [shrug] The name is 186 years old (more, if you count Jefferson’s Democratic-Republicans as a predecessor); too late to change it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/84 "2014-05-26T00:50:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You keep telling yourselves that 🙂 Frank Luntz disagrees. And I think he’s more of an expert. But not the sort you can trust. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/85 "2014-05-26T00:55:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Frank Luntz disagrees. And I think he’s more of an expert. [Oh yeah? 😃](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/01/the-agony-of-frank-luntz/282766/) > [@](#): > > It was what Luntz heard from the American people that scared him. They were contentious and argumentative. They didn’t listen to each other as they once had. They weren’t interested in hearing other points of view. They were divided one against the other, black vs. white, men vs. women, young vs. old, rich vs. poor. “They want to impose their opinions rather than express them,” is the way he describes what he saw. “And they’re picking up their leads from here in Washington.” Haven’t political disagreements always been contentious, I ask? “Not like this,” he says. “Not like this.” > > Luntz knew that he, a maker of political messages and attacks and advertisements, had helped create this negativity, and it haunted him. Of course, he thinks the person really to blame is, you guessed it, Obama. :rolleyes: But it just goes to show that Luntz is not so much some PR-strategy mastermind as a haphazard and now largely bewildered pioneer in the higher realms of dickishness and truthiness. > [@](#): > > Most of all, Luntz says, he wishes we would stop yelling at one another. […] Luntz’s populism has turned on itself and become its opposite: fear and loathing of the masses. Aw, poor baby. Some “expert”. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/86 "2014-05-26T02:14:32Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > I’m not a Democrat, so I guess I can’t be personally offended. But I think of it as similar to when a jerk decides to always address a person by a nickname that he made up, and the recipient didn’t ask for. It’s effing rude. People have a right to be addressed how they want. It’s just common courtesy. . . . This. Thank you for your consideration. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/87 "2014-05-26T07:19:32Z")
I frequently refer to the Republican Party as the “War Criminal Party” or the “Immoral Stain Party” or the “Death and Destruction Party” or the “Bigot Party” or the “Anti-Christ Party,” so I guess I can’t really complain if they choose to use the term “Democrat Party.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/88 "2014-05-26T13:36:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are quite a few “Democrat parties” around the world. Like “Sweden Democrat party”. Or Canadian “Christian Democrat Party”. There is not one “Republic Party”. I’ve never heard of a Canadian “Christian Democrat Party.” And I live here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/89 "2014-05-26T14:37:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you call the members of your party “Democrats” and then are surprised if someone refers to it as the “Democrat Party” you might wish to consider than maybe your name choice was ill advised. I know! Just like sometimes people call the country “The United States of Americans”. America? Americans? Two different words!? It’s all so confusing! Words are HARD! ☹ Basically, “Democrat Party” is evidence that most Republicans are so dirt-stupid that they can barely keep from drooling on themselves. The Republican Party is the party of stupid and ignorant people, so it shouldn’t be a surprise that they do such a horrible job whenever they’re in power. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/90 "2014-05-26T14:52:15Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I know! Just like sometimes people call the country “The United States of Americans”. America? Americans? Two different words!? It’s all so confusing! Words are HARD! ☹ The reason this comparison is wrong is that “Americans” is, in fact, the plural of “American,” and “American” is in fact the possessive of “America.” There is no room for confusion. On the other hand, one might think a party of Democrats is the Democrat Party. It’s a logical linguistic connection. I guess what I find bizarre is that the term “Democrat Party” could be considered an epithet at all. What’s mean or insulting about it? If it’s an insult it’s one of the weakest insults in the history of language - an inside joke of interest to few normal human beings. It’s not like “Democrap” or “Stupid Stinky Face Party” or something. What’s wrong with Democrats being called, well, Democrat? If Republicans decided to formally call themselves indivfdually Republics, but kept the name Republican Party for the group as a whole - a perfect comparison - would it be insulting to slip and refer to it as the Republic Party? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/91 "2014-05-26T14:55:49Z")
I made this mistake for quite a while, without intending any malice at all. To me, it came down to this: A person who belongs to a certain party is a Democrat. Another person is a Republican. Therefore, a party full of people like the first is a party full of Democrats - a Democrat party. A party full of Republicans is a Republican party. Also, “Democratic” is an overloaded term. So I say the country is democratic, does that mean it’s majority Democrat? Or that it adheres to democratic principles? If I start a party that aims to clean up the electoral system and improve the value of Democracy, I could very easily call it a “Democratic Party”. Plus, the notion that the word “Democrat” is offensive because it ends in ‘rat’ just seems bizarre, since that’s in fact what you do call a member of the Democratic party. So how is “Democrat party” offensive, but “That guy is a Democrat” isn’t? I find this whole debate just bizarre. And hypocritical coming from a bunch of people who use “Tea Bag” intentionally to be offensive. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/92 "2014-05-26T15:08:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > On the other hand, one might think a party of Democrats is the Democrat Party. It’s a logical linguistic connection. Only if you’re dim and don’t know much about American history. The Democratic Party has been called by that name for over 200 years. It’s not some recent invention. Tap-dance around it all you want, but the ugly truth is that Republicans are ignorant about America. They’re like a group of foreigners wandering around inside the country. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/93 "2014-05-26T15:13:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I made this mistake for quite a while, without intending any malice at all. I’m sure you were poorly educated about American history. The fact that the term is commonly used within the right-wing media bubble doesn’t help. It means lots of low-information voters like yourself are easily misled. The disturbing thing is that these low-information right-wingers think that their opinions on matters of national policy are valid. If you know so little about the United States that you don’t even know the names of the major political parties, your opinion on any matter of public policy can pretty much be discounted out of hand. You simply are too ignorant of American history and traditions to be able to contribute in a meaningful way to the debate. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/94 "2014-05-26T15:19:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I made this mistake for quite a while, without intending any malice at all. To me, it came down to this: > > A person who belongs to a certain party is a Democrat. > Another person is a Republican. > > Therefore, a party full of people like the first is a party full of Democrats - a Democrat party. A party full of Republicans is a Republican party. > > Also, “Democratic” is an overloaded term. So I say the country is democratic, does that mean it’s majority Democrat? Or that it adheres to democratic principles? If I start a party that aims to clean up the electoral system and improve the value of Democracy, I could very easily call it a “Democratic Party”. > > Plus, the notion that the word “Democrat” is offensive because it ends in ‘rat’ just seems bizarre, since that’s in fact what you do call a member of the Democratic party. So how is “Democrat party” offensive, but “That guy is a Democrat” isn’t? > > I find this whole debate just bizarre. And hypocritical coming from a bunch of people who use “Tea Bag” intentionally to be offensive. And I find it bizarre that people can’t seem to remember the _official name_ of one of the two major political parties. And that when called on it, make wordy excuses explaining that their usage is in fact correct and should be substituted for the _official name_ of one of the two major political parties. Two parties that are, you know, pretty commonly called by name by _virtually everybody_ and thereby _known to every person having ears_. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/95 "2014-05-26T15:30:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > […] widespread Republican insistence on using the wrong term for the Democratic Party seems to be causing a number of Republicans to believe that that’s the party’s actual name, which just makes them look dumb and/or ill-informed when the issue is clarified. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > I made this mistake for quite a while, without intending any malice at all. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/96 "2014-05-26T15:57:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I made this mistake for quite a while, without intending any malice at all. To me, it came down to this: > > A person who belongs to a certain party is a Democrat. > Another person is a Republican. > > Therefore, a party full of people like the first is a party full of Democrats - a Democrat party. A party full of Republicans is a Republican party. > > Also, “Democratic” is an overloaded term. So I say the country is democratic, does that mean it’s majority Democrat? Or that it adheres to democratic principles? If I start a party that aims to clean up the electoral system and improve the value of Democracy, I could very easily call it a “Democratic Party”. > > Plus, the notion that the word “Democrat” is offensive because it ends in ‘rat’ just seems bizarre, since that’s in fact what you do call a member of the Democratic party. So how is “Democrat party” offensive, but “That guy is a Democrat” isn’t? > > I find this whole debate just bizarre. And hypocritical coming from a bunch of people who use “Tea Bag” intentionally to be offensive. I agree with this. I’m a Democrat and use Democrat as an adjective and seriously do not give a shit. It comes down to “the term is overloaded” to me. “My democratic friend”, even in a political context, could mean my friend is annoying and wants to democratically vote on everything, or maybe that they’re good at considering everyone’s opinion, or that they’re a member of the Democratic Party. Democrat has no such ambiguity. In fact, “the Republicans are the most democratic party in Congress right now” is a perfectly valid sentence I wouldn’t blink at (well, I disagree with it, but it makes sense). Technically you could argue that, in theory, “Republican” and “Libertarian” have the same problems, but the corresponding words are used far less (though it’s a tad worse for Libertarians since we do frequently have the "small l vs big L libertarian debate). The only other party I can think of that may suffer this problem is “Green”, but they’re not a big player so it doesn’t really come up. As far as I’m concerned as a Democrat, I don’t care if you’re calling it the Democrat party or the Democratic party, nor do I care if you call your friend, boss, or teacher “my Democrat friend” or “my Democratic friend”. If you’re doing it with malice, then I begrudge you for the malice, not the word choice. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/97 "2014-05-26T16:04:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The reason this comparison is wrong is that “Americans” is, in fact, the plural of “American,” and “American” is in fact the possessive of “America.” There is no room for confusion. On the other hand, one might think a party of Democrats is the Democrat Party. It’s a logical linguistic connection. > > I guess what I find bizarre is that the term “Democrat Party” could be considered an epithet at all. What’s mean or insulting about it? If it’s an insult it’s one of the weakest insults in the history of language - an inside joke of interest to few normal human beings. It’s not like “Democrap” or “Stupid Stinky Face Party” or something. What’s wrong with Democrats being called, well, Democrat? If Republicans decided to formally call themselves indivfdually Republics, but kept the name Republican Party for the group as a whole - a perfect comparison - would it be insulting to slip and refer to it as the Republic Party? My point exactly. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I made this mistake for quite a while, without intending any malice at all. To me, it came down to this: > > A person who belongs to a certain party is a Democrat. > Another person is a Republican. > > Therefore, a party full of people like the first is a party full of Democrats - a Democrat party. A party full of Republicans is a Republican party. > > Also, “Democratic” is an overloaded term. So I say the country is democratic, does that mean it’s majority Democrat? Or that it adheres to democratic principles? If I start a party that aims to clean up the electoral system and improve the value of Democracy, I could very easily call it a “Democratic Party”. > > Plus, the notion that the word “Democrat” is offensive because it ends in ‘rat’ just seems bizarre, since that’s in fact what you do call a member of the Democratic party. So how is “Democrat party” offensive, but “That guy is a Democrat” isn’t? > > I find this whole debate just bizarre. And hypocritical coming from a bunch of people who use “Tea Bag” intentionally to be offensive. You had me up until the last sentence, the difference being that “tea bag” and “teabagger” were chosen by the group in question, are regognized as having already having been offensive and obscene by a large subset of the population, and is therefore funny. “Democrat?” Not so much, because “Democrat Party” is not remotely funny. There are two goals when you are trying to mock someone. The first is that he knows he’s being mocked _and is offended._ The second is when he doesn’t know he’s being mocked but others do. By not being inherently offensive “Democrat Party” lends itself well to the reverse of the former, where one recognizes the intended insult, mentally marks the mocker as an idiot, and moves on. If the mocker then laughs and says, “I called it the ‘Democrat Party’ and he didn’t get that I was insulting him,” one can then ask, “What’s supposed to be offensive about it?” He is not likely to be able to explain, and will look like a fool. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Only if you’re dim and don’t know much about American history. The Democratic Party has been called by that name for over 200 years. It’s not some recent invention. And if one reacts like this he comes off as a pedantic jerk, not only falling into the trap placed by the mocker but also reinforcing the Democrats’ image of being intellectual snobs. Many of us are, but there is no need to give them ammunition. > [@](#): > > Tap-dance around it all you want, but the ugly truth is that Republicans are ignorant about America. They’re like a group of foreigners wandering around inside the country. The uglier truth is that you are describing the vast majority of Americans, of any party. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/98 "2014-05-26T16:11:16Z")
For the longest time, I just thought it was Southern diction. Maybe because most the conservative Republicans I heard using the term were from the South. Never occurred to me it could be an insult. But I agree with **RickJay** that, if it is an insult, it’s the weakest insult everrrrrr!! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/99 "2014-05-26T16:17:30Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > And that when called on it, make wordy excuses explaining that their usage is in fact correct and should be substituted for the _official name_ of one of the two major political parties. I think this is because most Republicans have a hard time coming to grips with just how out of touch they are with the world. They live in a bubble where the name of the opposition is the Democrat Party and the welfare system is being milked by greedy poor people and high American taxes are destroying the economy and Benghazi is bigger than Watergate. Any suggestion that most of what they know is garbage is profoundly disturbing to them, so they concoct all sorts of convoluted rationalizations to avoid having to admit how ignorant they are. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/100 "2014-05-26T16:23:31Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The uglier truth is that you are describing the vast majority of Americans, of any party. I disagree. Most Americans who aren’t living inside the right-wing echo chamber are pretty sensible about politics. And I think saying that most Americans are ignorant only plays into the fiction that Democrats are out of touch elitists. It’s a very bad tactic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186.md?page=6)