# Liberals, Progressives, or Democrats, can we get over 'The Democrat Party?' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186 "2014-05-24T16:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/141 "2014-05-27T02:59:26Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Because I want you and your ilk to stop being such a over-sensitive pussies. You are the ones making a BFD out of the most measly “insult” that can be imagined, and you are giving the rest of us a bad name. I.e., STOP HELPING. > **[People who make such poorly thought-out arguments that they do their "side" a...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=624026)** > > This thread is about people who make such poorly thought-out arguments that they do their “side” a disservice, such that you’re silently screaming “PLEASE DON’T HELP”\* or you think they may secretly be a plant for the other “side”. \*(I think of a... ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/142 "2014-05-27T03:04:50Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > If someone spits in your face but smiles while claiming he didn’t do it, would your reaction really be that different? False equivalence. Spitting in your face is nothing at all comparable to “_Democrat_ Party, yukyukyuk.” One is illegal as (mild) criminal battery while the other is the nattering of a simpleton. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/143 "2014-05-27T03:09:31Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Because I want you and your ilk to stop being such a over-sensitive pussies. You are the ones making a BFD out of the most measly “insult” that can be imagined, and you are giving the rest of us a bad name. You’re the one who opened a thread specifically to discuss this issue (when, AFAICT, it hasn’t even been pinging the radar anywhere else on these forums), you’re the one who seems most upset about its consequences, and you’re the one (AFAICT, the only one here) who apparently thinks that it is indirectly somehow posing a genuine danger to the Democratic image. You, **dropzone** , are the one making a BFD out of this. So the next time you consider starting a thread _calling for a debate_ on a subject _that you actually want everybody to ignore and not draw attention to_, how about you take a half-hour cooling-off period and then, you know, not actually start the thread? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/144 "2014-05-27T03:17:31Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I.e., STOP HELPING. > > [People who make such poorly thought-out arguments that they do their "side" a disservice - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=624026) So where does my argument start damaging my side? All I’ve seen to counter it is slight variations on, “Those meanies insulted me because they used a slight, inoffensive in itself, variation of a party name that goes clear back to Andrew Jackson _on purpose!_ Them’s fightin’ words!” But yes, I will stop my quixotic crusade because so many Dopers have shown they are complete babies willing to die defending a molehill. I’m embarrassed to belong to the same political party. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/145 "2014-05-27T03:20:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You’re the one who opened a thread specifically to discuss this issue (when, AFAICT, it hasn’t even been pinging the radar anywhere else on these forums) Actually, it comes up about once a week. As I recall, there’s one in the Pit right now. I’d look for examples, but I need to get to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/146 "2014-05-27T03:20:56Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So where does my argument start damaging my side? All I’ve seen to counter it is slight variations on, “Those meanies insulted me because they used a slight, inoffensive in itself, variation of a party name that goes clear back to Andrew Jackson _on purpose!_ Them’s fightin’ words!” > > But yes, I will stop my quixotic crusade because so many Dopers have shown they are complete babies willing to die defending a molehill. I’m embarrassed to belong to the same political party. [i.e. - Wiktionary, the free dictionary](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/i.e). ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/147 "2014-05-27T03:25:07Z")
“Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him, And makes me poor indeed.” Shakespeare ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/148 "2014-05-27T03:37:27Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > But yes, I will stop my quixotic crusade because so many Dopers have shown they are complete babies willing to die defending a molehill. Dude. You _ASKED_ for our opinions on this subject, by explicitly initiating a debate about it. Don’t like having people disagree with you? Shouldn’t have asked for a debate. > [@dropzone](#): > > I’m embarrassed to belong to the same political party. Well, just keep reminding yourself that it’s a big tent. We all have to do that sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/149 "2014-05-27T03:41:01Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > False equivalence. Spitting in your face is nothing at all comparable to “_Democrat_ Party, yukyukyuk.” One is illegal as (mild) criminal battery while the other is the nattering of a simpleton. The point I’m trying to make is, what difference does it make if they admit it or not if it’s clear they mean insult? I don’t see what’s the point in trying to claim an imaginary , fraction more of the higher ground by saying, “when we name call, we admit it.” > [@dropzone](#): > > Because I want you and your ilk to stop being such a over-sensitive pussies. You are the ones making a BFD out of the most measly “insult” that can be imagined, and you are giving the rest of us a bad name. As I have said repeatedly, attack their ideas, not their epithets. The only time I really saw this was an issue was when Rachel Maddow and Jon Stewart were talking and Maddow said, “The Democ **rat** Party, has the word rat in it.” That’s the first time I’ve really heard it be an issue. The second was here, and the last time was when I was watching a youtube clip because of this thread where Chris Matthews gets upset with Darrel Issa for saying “Democrat congress.” ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/150 "2014-05-27T03:57:55Z")
Surely starting a new thread about how we should “just ignore it” is making a bigger deal of it than the occasional correction. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/151 "2014-05-27T05:44:56Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Ahem… > > When people go through election cycle after election cycle seeing campaign signs like these it’s hardly any wonder they refer to the Democrat party. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Really? You’re arguing that Republicans are so easily confused or so minimally informed that seeing a sign proclaiming “Vote Democrat” (as in, “Vote for the Democrats” or “Vote for this Democrat”, since you seem to need it spelled out for you) causes them to misidentify the actual official name of the party? > > Yup, that does sound pretty ill-informed and/or dumb. What you are utterly failing to grasp, in your eagerness to assail the intelligence of conservatives, is that most people in this country regardless of political affiliation couldn’t care less what the “actual official” name of the party is, and in fact it’s probably never occurred to most of them that there is one. The see campaign signs saying vote for this or that Republican and/or vote Republican, and they see signs saying vote for this or that Democrat and/or vote Democrat. And so they think of the Republican Party and they think of the Democrat Party. Period. If you so-called progressives were as smart as you like to think you are you’d realize that the average citizen is not all that caught up in the minutiae of politics and that no particular insult or stupidity is at work whenever someone refers to the Democrat party. A great many Democrats themselves do it. Are they ill-informed and/or dumb as well? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/152 "2014-05-27T06:12:24Z")
If someone asks or points out they want to be referred to in a certain way, I would honor their request. It’s no big deal to do so and seems silly to refuse. However this: > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > But in this forum, since there is that rule and all, this is how it should go: > > Poster A: Blah, Blah, Blah, Democrat Party. > Poster B: That is a known epithet. [[Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet))]. Please don’t use that term anymore. > > If Poster A does a mea culpa, pleads ignorance, apologizes, and/or doesn’t use the term again, the problem is solved. However if Poster A, upon learning that the term is an epithet that does offend some people, continues to use the term, then the moderation here should take the usual steps they take when someone has jerk-ish behavior pointed out to them and they continue to be a jerk. Calling for someone to be warned or banned because they use the term “Democrat Party” is asinine. Calling a party a name that is very similar to their chosen name either on purpose or on accident is somehow worse than: > [@](#): > > Basically, “Democrat Party” is evidence that most Republicans are so dirt-stupid that they can barely keep from drooling on themselves. The Republican Party is the party of stupid and ignorant people, so it shouldn’t be a surprise that they do such a horrible job whenever they’re in power. > > The disturbing thing is that these low-information right-wingers think that their opinions on matters of national policy are valid. Right. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Most people are probably too polite too tell you that you sound stupid … When I see people who are ostensibly on your side of…whatever you are on make the same mistake, I tend to chalk it up to people just making an error: > [@To what extent can a group member's character be inferred from others'?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-what-extent-can-a-group-members-character-be-inferred-from-others/680677/4): > > Not really an applicable analogy; the **Democrat Party** at the time … > [@Gerald\_II](#): > > The only time I really saw this was an issue was when Rachel Maddow and Jon Stewart were talking and Maddow said, “The Democ **rat** Party, has the word rat in it.” "The _Democ **rat** ic Party"_ still has the word "rat in it. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/153 "2014-05-27T07:15:46Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If someone asks or points out they want to be referred to in a certain way, I would honor their request. It’s no big deal to do so and seems silly to refuse. However… Calling for someone to be warned or banned because they use the term “Democrat Party” is asinine. First of all, in my hypothetical, I mention that if someone learns that some people find this offensive and stops using the term, then _they’re not being a jerk_ and posting in accordance with the rules of this message board. Second of all, if you think that someone after being shown that something they say is both offensive to another poster and also has a history of being used in a manner designed to be offensive should not be open to discipline from the board then your quibble is with the rule because that is _decidedly being a jerk_. A great example is the term Tranny. Many consider this an [offensive term](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranny_(slang)). Some people such as [actress Gabourey Sidibe](http://www.bet.com/news/celebrities/2014/02/03/gabourey-sidibe-apologizes-for-anti-transgender-slur.html) and even [Jerry Springer](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/24/jerry-springer-tranny_n_5023301.html) have used the term, got called on it, and plead ignorance and agreed not to use the term again. Whereas [RuPaul](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/22/rupaul-responds-tranny_n_5374897.html) doubled down on his use of the term. RuPaul is being a jerk. If he posted here and continued to defend his use of the term after being educated about it, then he would be a jerk and would open himself up to disciplinary action. This is all pretty simple. A term is shown to be offensive by a poster who is offended. Keep using it and that makes you a jerk. Being a jerk is against the rules of this board. It’s all very logical. I realize that your defense is that the person shouldn’t be offended. But that’s just blaming the victim which is pretty horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/154 "2014-05-27T13:26:11Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > This is all pretty simple. A term is shown to be offensive by a poster who is offended. Keep using it and that makes you a jerk. Being a jerk is against the rules of this board. It’s all very logical. Do you believe if a person goes into every thread where the term “faux news” is used and says that the term is offensive, further use of it warrants board moderation? How about “repugs” or “libtards” or any other derived slang? If those offend a poster then further use should be, what? Moderated? Called out each time they are used? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/155 "2014-05-27T13:30:56Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Do you believe if a person goes into every thread where the term “faux news” is used and says that the term is offensive, further use of it warrants board moderation? > > How about “repugs” or “libtards” or any other derived slang? If those offend a poster then further use should be, what? Moderated? Called out each time they are used? Maybe someone finds “Bone” offensive. After all, it is slang for intercourse. I think you have to change your nick immediately. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/156 "2014-05-27T14:02:49Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > This is all pretty simple. A term is shown to be offensive by a poster who is offended. Keep using it and that makes you a jerk. Being a jerk is against the rules of this board. It’s all very logical. Would you like to bet? Let me know your wager, and I’ll open an ATMB thread and we’ll see just how “simple” it is. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/157 "2014-05-27T14:41:49Z")
I think every person in this thread knows that “Tea Bagger” is offensive. What do you think the odds are that any of them will stop using the term? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/158 "2014-05-27T15:02:29Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think every person in this thread knows that “Tea Bagger” is offensive. What do you think the odds are that any of them will stop using the term? It would take all the tea in China, and then some, for that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/159 "2014-05-27T15:15:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What you are utterly failing to grasp, in your eagerness to assail the intelligence of conservatives, is that most people in this country regardless of political affiliation couldn’t care less what the “actual official” name of the party is, and in fact it’s probably never occurred to most of them that there is one. The see campaign signs saying vote for this or that Republican and/or vote Republican, and they see signs saying vote for this or that Democrat and/or vote Democrat. And so they think of the Republican Party and they think of the Democrat Party. LOL. You just keep proving my point. Most people who live outside your sheltered little right-wing media bubble know what the correct name of the party is. It’s not like being able to recite the names of all the justices on the supreme court or the capitals of all the states. It’s mostly a problem with low-information voters who get most of their news from right-wing sources that enjoy mangling the name of the opposition party to be jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186/160 "2014-05-27T15:20:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think every person in this thread knows that “Tea Bagger” is offensive. What do you think the odds are that any of them will stop using the term? I don’t use the term. I thought it was hilarious at first when some right-wingers decided to start calling themselves “Tea Baggers”. But once they changed the name of the group to “Tea Partiers” I called them what they wanted to be called. It’s been my experience that conservatives tend to assume that their own misdeeds are exactly mirrored by people on the other side of the aisle. They use this as a way to rationalize their actions. “Well, so what? The Democrats are just as bad!” Generally this opinion is false – it’s just another side effect of the bubble of ignorance they inhabit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-progressives-or-democrats-can-we-get-over-the-democrat-party/689186.md?page=9)