# Liberals: What do you think of Hillary Clinton for POTUS now? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 27, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973 "2005-11-27T23:45:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973/61 "2005-12-06T18:32:36Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > So to hell with “good” Republicans. There ain’t any. Well, I’m not a Republican, so my ox is not being gored here, but that statement is either willfully ignorant or deliberately inflammatory. And not to the point, as well, for it posits that Republicans are intrinsically bad, rather than bad in comparison to “a crappy liberal.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973/62 "2005-12-06T19:12:56Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Well, I’m not a Republican, so my ox is not being gored here, but that statement is either willfully ignorant or deliberately inflammatory. And not to the point, as well, for it posits that Republicans are intrinsically bad, rather than bad in comparison to “a crappy liberal.” I don’t know whether you’re being sincere or not. The OP asks liberals’ opinions of Hillary Clinton. The thread has demonstrated that there is a range of self-identified liberals, but the general thrust is that whatever a person, as a liberal, might think of Clinton, if she is nominated, then there is no choice but to vote for her. There is _no_ Republican, real or theoretical, who could draw a vote from many liberals, including me, regardless of any isolated evaluation of Republican X and Clinton. You asked why. I’m telling you why: This is the lesson that many of us have taken since 1994: It doesn’t matter what the individual merits of a candidate are; if a Republican is elected, liberals lose. Period. (Especially with regard to presidential elections.) This position is neither willfully ignorant nor deliberately inflammatory. It is simply what many liberals believe and they believe they have good reasons for holding this belief. If you don’t understand why this might be the case, then ask. I’m sure there are plenty of people here who would be willing to respond to such an inquiry. Your question regarding “who is this great Republican” misses the point (whether deliberately or not, I don’t know). Because _it doesn’t matter which Republican_. Positing that there might, in theory, be a “great Republican” is merely offering the benefit of the doubt that it is theoretically possible for there to be a Republican that liberals might, on balance, find appealing. The fact is that there is no such Republican, and even if there were, many liberals would _still_ vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is, over a Republican they might, in theory, like better. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973/63 "2005-12-06T19:23:02Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > Gore did not lose the presidential election. He won the presidential election. No, he didn’t. You wish he won. You wish it so much that even now, five years after the event in question, with the clear evidence in front of you that Gore’s opponent has been in the White House, not Gore, you are still moved to make a statement like this. [Nelson Muntz] HA ha! [/Muntz] ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973/64 "2005-12-06T19:28:53Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I don’t know whether you’re being sincere or not. I am > [@ascenray](#): > > You asked why. Where? > [@ascenray](#): > > I’m telling you why: This is the lesson that many of us have taken since 1994: It doesn’t matter what the individual merits of a candidate are; if a Republican is elected, liberals lose. Period. (Especially with regard to presidential elections.) Does “liberals lose. Period.” mean all liberals? Absolutely? In every case? > [@ascenray](#): > > This position is neither willfully ignorant nor deliberately inflammatory. It is simply what many liberals believe and they believe they have good reasons for holding this belief. If you don’t understand why this might be the case, then ask. I’m sure there are plenty of people here who would be willing to respond to such an inquiry. The position in question is (paraphrase) “there ain’t any good Republicans.” I know several. I welcome yours or anyone else’s efforts to prove me wrong. > [@ascenray](#): > > Your question regarding “who is this great Republican” misses the point (whether deliberately or not, I don’t know). Because _it doesn’t matter which Republican_. Positing that there might, in theory, be a “great Republican” is merely offering the benefit of the doubt that it is theoretically possible for there to be a Republican that liberals might, on balance, find appealing. \*\*even \*\ ***sven** posited the great Republican. Your beef is with her, not me. > [@ascentay](#): > > The fact is that there is no such Republican, and even if there were, many liberals would _still_ vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is, over a Republican they might, in theory, like better. Here’s a hypothetical. The Republican nominee for president is John McCain. The Democrats nominate Al Sharpton. Who do you vote for? Is the above crappy liberal better than any possible Republican? ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973/65 "2005-12-06T19:59:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, he didn’t. You wish he won. You wish it so much that even now, five years after the event in question, with the clear evidence in front of you that Gore’s opponent has been in the White House, not Gore, you are still moved to make a statement like this. > > [Nelson Muntz] > > HA ha! > > [/Muntz] Had a full recount of the ballots in Florida been undertaken, it would have shown that Gore actually did win the presidential election in 2000. Gore is not in the White House because of a shameful power grab by Bush and the SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973/66 "2005-12-06T20:14:08Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > Look at the losers as well for more evidence - > > Kerry - Senator (Mass) > Gore - VP, former Senator > Dole - Senator > Bush 41 (VP) > Dukakis - Governor, (Mass) > Mondale - Senator > > This is more than a trend. A big part of the problem is that Senators have voting records that can be scrutinized for every inconsistency (“I voted for it before I voted against it”) and used against the candidate. This is exactly what I was going to say, but y’all beat me to it. John Kerry was no more or less a “waffler” than most other senators; senators change their minds on legislation constantly. It’s the nature of the beast. One minute a senator expresses support for a bill, then something gets added or removed in committee, and he changes his mind. It’s the more deliberative house, and senators by nature take longer to make decisions, and they change their minds. This isn’t a bad thing, until one of them decides to run for president against a governor, who by nature administers his state with more decisive actions, and can label his opponent a “waffler” and “indecisive.” Senators have more of a handicap than any other politician when it comes to running for office. Even representatives, while often less known nationally, act more quickly in their house, and more along party lines, which can help them in a pres campaign. Happy Happy ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973/67 "2005-12-06T21:05:57Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > This is a big strike against her in my book: > > [Sen. Clinton co-sponsors anti-flag burning law](http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny-brf--clinton-flag-1205dec05,0,7179096.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork) I’m reminded of that quote from Michael Moore, “Bill Clinton was the best Republican President we ever had.” ---
**Author:** ![Barely\_Adequate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Barely\_Adequate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barely_Adequate)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973/68 "2005-12-06T22:07:10Z")
I don’t think the American electorate is sophisticated or open-minded enough to elect any woman to the presidency. Maybe 16-20 years from now, but not in the immediate future. Frankly, I doubt that a woman candidate can attract enough \*women voters \* to overcome the political gender-bias inherent in the current voting population. Personally, I would have no problem voting for her. I’m accustomed to rarely “getting” the president that I “deserve”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973/69 "2005-12-06T22:29:37Z")
I also have high hopes for Obama. I hope we’ve come far enough that his race isn’t a major roadblock. Maybe a Gore/Obama ticket, and Gore resigns once inaugurated- that’d be cool. 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-what-do-you-think-of-hillary-clinton-for-potus-now/332973.md?page=3)