So it’s a bad idea because it doesn’t directly benefit you?
The older I get, the more I appreciate many traditionally conservative views. The biggest one I wish more people would accept is personal responsibility. We all have choices in life, no matter what hand we have been dealt. My children are being taught personal responsibility and consequences of making bad choices, I wish other people would do that, rather than expect the schools, churches or store employees to protect their precious little snowflakes from being allowed to make choices.
Since when is personal responsibility a “conservative” ideal? How is liberalism opposed to personal responsibility? That’s a canard, just like conservatives being the only ones who believe in God and “family values” is a canard.
What does “personal responsibility” even mean from a policy standpoint? Is it just code for cutting funding from roads, schools, or hospitals? Or is there something more to it?
I think when conservative demagogues talk about it, it’s double talk for advoidance of civic responsibility.
I like the idea of giving punishments that reflect the seriousness of someone’s crime. I think today’s [British] society is woefully inadequate in its treatment of criminals. Prison is comparable to a hotel.
I had to serve five days in jail last year for a speeding offense, and it wasn’t anything like a hotel, or even a really crappy motel. I seriously doubt the British penal system’s any better.
The scholarship remark was more a subtle dig at the oppressed suburban white middle class male idea, but yes, excluding a whole population of people NOW because of some inequity THEN is terribly unfair.
Call it whining if you want, but I’m really not sure what my skin color and gender should have to do with whether or not I’m awarded a college scholarship.
You might be surprised. I knew someone who was in an (admittedly not British : Manx) Jail.
He used his time to get an IT qualification. He said it was like a hotel, the downside being you can’t go outside the perimiter.
Edit; I asked around the office. They’ve had friends who confirm conditions are distincly hotel-like.
This.
I don’t think anyone is against personal responsiblity. As a political issue, it needs to be juxtaposed with gummint intrusion into the individual’s personal life. Phrased like that, conservatives are pretty uniformly for it and liberals are pretty uniformly against emphasizing personality responsibility to the exclusion of state responsibility for certain things.
This is a phrase not unlike “death tax” or “anti-abortion”–at first, we’re all on the same side, until we articulate a modified interpretation, and then we divide sharply.
I see. I don’t necessarily disagree with you, by the way. Whilst in theory I’m all for interventions that even the playing field when it comes to dealing with socio-economic disadvantage (which is after all highly correlated to race, especially in the UK) I’m not entirely sure the US system of Affirmative Action is necessarily the best way to achieve it.
Back when I was a dumbass teen I used to be really anti-nuke, a position I feel really embarrassed by today. I think it was more common sense than conservatism that led me to be pro-nuke.
I didn’t mean to imply that personal responsibility is only valued by conservatives. They just tend to be more vocal about it. As to your assessment that this vocalization is often accompanied by the denial of civic responsibility–well put. I think there may be a * tendency*, however, on the liberal side of things, to attribute personal failure to social injustice. While this is often the case, it is not always the case. My job puts me in direct contact with a number of people in less than ideal life circumstances, and the split between ‘‘bad luck’’ and ‘‘bad decisions’’ is just about 50/50. I can’t help but feel like there must be some kind of middle ground – where we neither allow exploitation nor encourage learned helplessness. I have not always thought so ambiguously about this matter, and I would have to attribute the increasing complexity of my own political positions to the influence of conservative thought.
Shayna, I’m not familiar with just how Obama supposes he is going to rewrite NAFTA, but I cannot say it is fine just the way it is, at least not when it comes to Mexico and the United States. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the international investment that free trade allows is at the expense of undercutting the sale of domestic goods. Ideally the losses in the agrarian sectors would be absorbed by the rapid expansion of manufacturing. This is not happening for two reasons. 1) The manufacturing plants in Mexico are largely foreign-owned. Goods are imported from the U.S. into Mexico, manufactured using Mexican labor, and exported, resulting in zero investment in domestic business. 2) There are not enough new jobs available in manufacturing to compensate for the losses in agriculture. What results is massive immigration into the United States at a great burden to the U.S. healthcare system and other public services in the already struggling minority areas.
Even if you have the reasonable opinion that Mexico is responsible for its own practices, policies and government, there is no question, at least from my point of view, that free trade as it is now is creating problems for the United States. I don’t have enough knowledge on the topic to suggest we should do away with free trade altogether, but I don’t see how its current incarnation is in our best interest as a nation. My belief is irrespective of my personal feelings about the great hardship immigrants go through in their attempt to survive economically. But if you’re the bleeding-heart type, as I most proudly am, this too should count as another argument for rewriting NAFTA.
Fiscal conservatism, decriminalization of marijuana (if you consider that a conservative policy, which I don’t), free trade/non-protectionism, and not interfering militarily in the affairs of other sovereign nations without multilateral support.
There are a few things I strongly dislike, but accept and even support in an American context because of the Constitution - the right to bear arms, and Constitutional arguments against Roe v. Wade.
There’s an argument against fiscal conservatism which is specific to the US, which is that there’s no need to balance our budget because there’s always someone around who will be willing to lend us money. I no longer believe in it, but I once did, and people do.
When conservatives say “personal responsibility”, it tends to mean “YOU’RE responsible”, or “screw you, I’ve got mine”. It’s what they use to excuse screwing someone over, and blaming the victim, or to excuse letting the unfortunate suffer.
Conservative “personal responsibility” is mostly about them denying any responsibility at all. Either towards society in general, or towards someone they are exploiting. It’s about shoving responsibility onto other people, and denying any of their own about anything.
I don’t really identify with any political party.
The basic idea of keeping the government out of my personal life and wallet at much as possible is fairly appealing. Unfortunately, it seems like “smaller government” is conservative double-speak for “We want to intrude at a state/local level where we don’t have to answer hard questions about privacy or equal rights”
I’m a bleeding heart in most respects, but there are a few conservative ideas I strongly agree with.
-
People should be married before having kids.
-
Kids do best in two-parent households.
-
Adults who are physically and mentally capable should work to support themselves and their families. I understand that shit happens and that people down on their luck need help, but the idea of a welfare system like Great Britain’s (where as I understand it, anybody can get housing and a check without having to look for work) boggles the mind.
That’s not quite true, but there are a lot of people who are effectively parasites off the system because they can be. A friend of mine has a cousin who’s a teacher and girls in her class have actually said to her “Why should I try and do well in my exams miss? I can just get pregnant and get a council flat”.
Makes me very very :mad:
What led you to the understanding that housing benefit is available to any British Citizen who asks for it?
Mostly from what I’ve read on messageboards and in novels. I’ll freely admit, it’s not something I’ve made an in-depth study of, and I may be off-base in my assumption. But it does seem that free, government-provided housing is more widely available to British citizens than American citizens.
Sorry, logged in as Left Hand, not burundi.