# Liberals: Would You Support An Abortion Ban In Exchange For A UHC Bill and Immigration Reform **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276 "2010-03-21T22:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/261 "2010-04-07T16:09:19Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Bearing a child has far reaching physical, emotional and financial ramifications, only the woman involved gets to say what’s right for her. Surrendering a child to adoption has far reaching emotional ramifications such that only the woman gets to say what’s right for her. Aborting a child has far reaching emotional and physical ramifications, again, only the woman involved gets to say what’s right for her. And parenting a child has far reaching emotional ramifications. But I assume you would not permit the mother of a newborn to kill her infant in the grounds that she didn’t wish to parent the child, and only she could make that decision. I mean, if she’s also unwilling to accept the far reaching emotional ramifications of adoption. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/262 "2010-04-07T17:32:05Z")
I know you are aware of the difference so I’m not even going to engage you on that point. Being pregnant is no guarantee of a live birth. Spontaneous abortion, miscarriage, still births happen every day, in every hospital. So you’re really talking about protecting ‘potential life’. I’ll believe you’re really committed to this cause just as soon as I see your campaign to end masturbation, and not before. That wasting of those potential lives seems to not even be on your radar. No one is asking you to do anything other than what you believe, when it’s you and your body involved. Kindly extend the same courtesy to others. It’d be the Christian thing to do, unto others and all. You live in a democracy, and officials elected by the majority, (or their appointees as dictated by your democracy), passed this. You either support democracy or you don’t. It sucks to be in the minority, I’m aware. But, ultimately, in a democracy, you have to suck it up when you’re in the minority. So suck it up. If you want Christian beliefs to dictate the laws of the land, move to a Christian theocracy or invent a time machine to go back in time. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/263 "2010-04-07T20:53:52Z")
I’ve posted on this before, so I’ll be brief. A fetus is not “potential life”. It is absolutely, unambiguously, and by any standard, alive. But the question of whether it’s alive is irrelevant, anyway: The real question is whether it’s a person (or a “potential person”, or whatever). ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/264 "2010-04-08T22:12:04Z")
It is not a person until it is a live birth, until then it’s a ‘potential’ person. It is, at the very same time, a potential spontaneous abortion, miscarriage or still birth. The mother, however is a person, long before conception occurs, and as such, she has the right to determine what happens to her body. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/265 "2010-04-08T22:56:05Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > It is not a person until it is a live birth, until then it’s a ‘potential’ person. It is, at the very same time, a potential spontaneous abortion, miscarriage or still birth. > > The mother, however is a person, long before conception occurs, and as such, she has the right to determine what happens to her body. I don’t see why you need the first part. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/266 "2010-04-08T23:13:50Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > The mother, however is a person, long before conception occurs, and as such, she has the right to determine what happens to her body. [Debatable.](http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/mackinnon/mackin1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/267 "2010-04-12T01:37:56Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > NO! GODDAM IT - NO - NO - NO - I would NOT support a ban.:mad: > > I don’t care if it’s a wee zygote or a budding angel or the next Albert Einstein, or WTF ever it is, if a female doesn’t want to be pregnant, she should not have to be pregnant. I’ve felt this way for 40 years and my daughter feels the same as I do. It is not the business of the pope, Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin, or anyone else not involved. > > I would like to point out abortions are done on CONSERVATIVES, libertarians, moderates, and all manner of religious fanatics. Yes, Republicans too, and especially the ones who have a lot of money. How many has Rush Limbaugh paid for over the years, do you think? How many has Ann Coulter, that diseased hag, had? If it has happened than almost certainly the media would have played it up yellow and those individuals’ reputations destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/268 "2010-04-12T01:45:59Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > If it has happened than almost certainly the media would have played it up yellow and those individuals’ reputations destroyed. You assume they would be found out; and that people would care enough to destroy their reputations. But the “the only moral abortion is my abortion” phenomenon is well known. And unsurprising, since as I’ve said repeatedly opposition to abortion isn’t about morality at all; just misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/269 "2010-04-12T05:07:34Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > If it has happened than almost certainly the media would have played it up yellow and those individuals’ reputations destroyed. :dubious: [LMGTFY](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+only+moral+abortion+is+my+abortion) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/270 "2010-04-12T06:56:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :dubious: > > [LMGTFY](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+only+moral+abortion+is+my+abortion) Wow! Haunted computer! (never seen that site before) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/271 "2010-04-12T11:24:16Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > If it has happened than almost certainly the media would have played it up yellow and those individuals’ reputations destroyed. Medical confidentiality was in place long before HIPAA. And most medical personnel believe in it–even if they personally dislike the patient. Hospital admissions are less private–you might get a few weak links who value tabloid money more than their jobs. But early term abortions can be done in private medical offices. The truly rich won’t have to run the gauntlet at Planned Parenthood. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/272 "2010-04-12T12:10:50Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The truly rich won’t have to run the gauntlet at Planned Parenthood. The truly rich, or even moderately well off don’t need to get it done in America in the first place. One of the more disgusting aspects of the anti-abortion crusade is that it has been targeted especially at poor women. Women who can’t necessarily afford multiple trips out of state, much less out of the country. Multiple trips because of stupid waiting periods and “counseling” sessions (aka being forced to let pro lifers lie to you) that serve no function but to harass and humiliate the woman, and make her burn more money and time. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/273 "2010-04-13T02:35:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Wow! Haunted computer! > > (never seen that site before) It really is quite handy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276.md?page=13)