# Liberals: Would You Support An Abortion Ban In Exchange For A UHC Bill and Immigration Reform **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276 "2010-03-21T22:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/21 "2010-03-21T23:45:17Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Not even foreign policy? Especially foreign policy. But \*especially \*domestic policy. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/22 "2010-03-21T23:48:13Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Abortion is one of those dealbreaking issues to me along with neo-isolationist foreign policy. If some candidate supports it I can’t support him unless all the other candidates are more or less extremnists. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Whitman For Governor (Yeah she’s pro abortion but she’s the only Republican with a chance). > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I’m a realist-same reasons why I supported Scott Brown in Massachusetts and Giuliani in New York. Elect Rockfeller Republicans in the liberal states and conservatives in conservative states Lol. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/23 "2010-03-21T23:48:26Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > As my parents do not have healthcare I have some form of state health insurance. And what you advocate is a bad idea; it will encourage young people not to have jobs and stay in their parents homes. Wait, what? You (or really your parents) are sucking on the gov. tit for your insurance but you (your parents) want to deny coverage to others who probably need it more than you do if we don’t agree to completely ban procedures that you (your parents) think are wrong, no matter who pays for them, solely because of your religious beliefs? Over my dead body. In other words: HELL NO. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/24 "2010-03-21T23:49:47Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > SCHIP? The State Children’s Health Insurance Plan. If your parents don’t have insurance and make too much to qualify for Medicaid, you may be covered under SCHIP. It’d depend on how much they make and where you live. > [@](#): > > Petreaus For President. Whitman For Governor (Yeah she’s pro abortion but she’s the only Republican with a chance). Not who you think will run in those elections, but how you’ll actually feel when you can actually vote. My point is that people tend to change from 13 or 14 to 18 or 21. So I don’t really care who you feel you could or couldn’t support now. Let’s see what you think in the debates here on the 2014 midterms. I find it unlikely that you’ll be a single-issue abortion voter. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/25 "2010-03-21T23:50:27Z")
> [@](#): > > neo-isolationist foreign policy What is that? Not wasting trillions on invading foreign countries for bogus reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/26 "2010-03-21T23:52:27Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Abortion is one of those dealbreaking issues to me along with neo-isolationist foreign policy.If some candidate supports it I can’t support him unless all the other candidates are more or less extremnists. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Petreaus For President. Whitman For Governor (Yeah she’s pro abortion but she’s the only Republican with a chance). So your passionately held belief is not really a dealbreaker then. You just want a Republican elected. Which is fine, but maybe you should just say that. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > In such a case abortion can be justified as the girl’s body may not be strong enough to give birth. How very grand of you that you even deign to consider her plight. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/27 "2010-03-21T23:55:38Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > The State Children’s Health Insurance Plan. If your parents don’t have insurance and make too much to qualify for Medicaid, you may be covered under SCHIP. It’d depend on how much they make and where you live. Healthnet. > [@](#): > > Not who you think will run in those elections, but how you’ll actually feel when you can actually vote. My point is that people tend to change from 13 or 14 to 18 or 21. So I don’t really care who you feel you could or couldn’t support now. Let’s see what you think in the debates here on the 2014 midterms. I find it unlikely that you’ll be a single-issue abortion voter. Which I’m not-other issues go in and national security is more important. > [@Chen019](#): > > What is that? Not wasting trillions on invading foreign countries for bogus reasons? No I mean what Pat Buchanan, Noam Chomsky, and Ron Paul (among others) have advocated: withdrawl from NATO and all other alliances, withdrawl of US troops from most foreign nations (or even all), suspension of all free trade pacts, economic protectionism, and generally a pre-Pearl Harbor mentality. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/28 "2010-03-21T23:57:03Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > So your passionately held belief is not really a dealbreaker then. You just want a Republican elected. Which is fine, but maybe you should just say that. If of course a pro-abortion Republican was the only electable one I’d support him but if there was a choice between a pro-abortion and pro-life one (in say a primary) and both were relatively likely to have a good chance in the general one I’d choose the latter. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/29 "2010-03-21T23:57:11Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > How very grand of you that you even deign to consider her plight. Because all know that the best judge under such circumstances is not a doctor. The best judge is a local Republican religious fanatic. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/30 "2010-03-22T00:01:21Z")
Wouldn’t support it. Abortion is serious fundamental human rights territory. Giving control of my body to anyone else is fundamentally wrong. UHC and immigration reforms are nice extras a rich country can afford. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/31 "2010-03-22T00:04:07Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > In response to a thread about how many religious conservatives object to a UHC bill because they believe it will fund abortions would you support a deal with religious conservatives to support an unilateral ban on abortion by constitutional amendment except if the mother’s life is threatened in exchange for a comprehensive universal health care bill and immigration reform? No. One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Also, I believe it’s disgustingly inhuman and inhumane to presume a right to play games with a woman’s biology and reproductive rights as though they’re commodities. And no, to anticipate your next question, I don’t believe a fetus has the same rights as its host. In fact, I don’t believe a fetus has rights at all until the moment of viability, which contrasts the seeming conservative mindset that all rights cease upon viability, but that’s another story. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > In such a case abortion can be justified as the girl’s body may not be strong enough to give birth. That’s your criteria? Are you kidding? So if the girl is able to carry the product of the rape with no physical ill effects, she should have to? We should forget about the fact that she was physically brutalized against her will and her rights as a human being squashed like a bug under someone’s boot when she was raped. She should be brutalized against her will again by being forced to gestate a constant reminder of the rape every second of every minute of every day for nine months while the abomination grows inside her, and then be forced, that’s right, FORCED, to bear the child. Then again, as a man, you’ll never have to worry about being in such a predicament, and that’s what really matters isn’t it? Anyway, women are not really human, are they? They’re certainly less human than a clump of dividing cells according to religious conservative dogma, which is just sick. …and anti reproductive rights conservatives wonder why they’re considered evil. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/32 "2010-03-22T00:04:41Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Wouldn’t support it. Abortion is serious fundamental human rights territory. Giving control of my body to anyone else is fundamentally wrong. The right of fetuses to _ **live** _ is a fundamental right. Incidentally I do support ERA because in my opinion the wording of the document which gives total equality for both sexes explicitly gives one of two choices: 1) neither men nor women can have the right to choose abortion or 2) men can have say in making women have abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/33 "2010-03-22T00:06:30Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > No. One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. A lot of political compromises are achieved by gaining consensus on unrelated issues. And I do think it’s related-if people have a right to health care don’t they also have the right to live? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/34 "2010-03-22T00:10:13Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The right of fetuses to _ **live** _ is a fundamental right. > > Incidentally I do support ERA because in my opinion the wording of the document which gives total equality for both sexes explicitly gives one of two choices: 1) neither men nor women can have the right to choose abortion or 2) men can have say in making women have abortions. That is some kookoo reading of the ERA right there. Here’s the text: > [@](#): > > Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/35 "2010-03-22T00:13:43Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Healthnet. Healthnet. Is that the Boston Medical Center Healthnet Plan? The plan that manages the participants of MassHealth and Commonwealth Care? So, in other words, if this means that you live in Massachusetts it also means that you’ve spent the last four years of your life living under basically the system that is about to pass the House. And having the government pay for it to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/36 "2010-03-22T00:18:13Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > That is some kookoo reading of the ERA right there. Here’s the text: By that text if men do not have the right to have say in performing abortions women should not either. > [@asterion](#): > > Healthnet. Is that the Boston Medical Center Healthnet Plan? The plan that manages the participants of MassHealth and Commonwealth Care? > > So, in other words, if this means that you live in Massachusetts it also means that you’ve spent the last four years of your life living under basically the system that is about to pass the House. And having the government pay for it to boot. California not Massachusetts. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/37 "2010-03-22T00:21:42Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > By that text if men do not have the right to have say in performing abortions women should not either. Men do have the exact same say to women in performing abortions. Nobody is allowed to make abortion decisions for anybody else who is legally competent to make their own decisions. Nothing in that rule discriminates on the basis of sex. As I said, a completely kookoo reading of the text. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/38 "2010-03-22T00:22:32Z")
No, of course not. A womans right to her own body cannot be bargained away. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/39 "2010-03-22T00:24:05Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The right of fetuses to _ **live** _ is a fundamental right. No, it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/40 "2010-03-22T00:24:57Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Men do have the exact same say to women in performing abortions. Nobody is allowed to make abortion decisions for anybody else who is legally competent to make their own decisions. Nothing in that rule discriminates on the basis of sex. As I said, a completely kookoo reading of the text. Isn’t it a bit _unfair_ if the father of the fetus has no say in the abortion? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276.md?page=3)