# Liberals: Would You Support An Abortion Ban In Exchange For A UHC Bill and Immigration Reform **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276 "2010-03-21T22:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/161 "2010-03-25T03:23:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is a truly ignorant statement. I mean that literally. It is an uninformed and ignorant thing to say. It’s also callous and unChristian. The vast majority of women who have abortions are not because they were raped but because they voluntarily had sex. > [@](#): > > Just out of curiosity, though, are you willing to pay their medical bills to carry the pregnancy to term and deliver them? YES X1,000,000 > [@](#): > > If they’re “going” to be human, then they’re NOT human, and if a pregnancy was terminated, there never was a human, and they were never “going to be” human. For instance you’re not allowed to kill people with Alzheimer’s or those in a coma or without permission those in a vegetative state. > [@](#): > > You think the government should teach religious morality to children? Seriously? The government should teach that “fornication” and homosexuality are “immoral?” What is your cite for these things being “immoral?” You are not allowed to use the Bible or any religious belief. Prove that “fornication” is immoral. They undermine social cohesion, decays the moral character of the people, force the government to provide birth control for free (I don’t oppose it for moral reasons but for financial reasons), and oftentimes teen pregnancies and thus abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/162 "2010-03-25T03:26:52Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > T > They undermine social cohesion, decays the moral character of the people, force the government to provide birth control for free (I don’t oppose it for moral reasons but for financial reasons), and oftentimes teen pregnancies and thus abortions. Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/163 "2010-03-25T03:38:37Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The vast majority of women who have abortions are not because they were raped but because they voluntarily had sex. Irrelevant to why what you said was ignorant. This is something you’ll understand better when you grow up. > [@](#): > > YES X1,000,000 That would cost you billions of dollars a year. Where are you going to get the money? > [@](#): > > For instance you’re not allowed to kill people with Alzheimer’s or those in a coma or without permission those in a vegetative state. What does this have to do with clumps of insentient tissue which are not, and never will be people? > [@](#): > > They undermine social cohesion Cite? > [@](#): > > ,decays the moral character of the people This is just a restatement of the premise. You can’t say something is immoral because it’s immoral. That’s redundant. > [@](#): > > force the government to provide birth control for free (I don’t oppose it for moral reasons but for financial reasons) This is hilarious. You’re too cheap to pay for condoms, but you’re willing to fork over thousands of dollars per women to pay for prenatal care and deliveries an maternity care (along with neonatal care, of course). It’s cheaper to spring for the balloons, bro, if you really care about financial concerns. > [@](#): > > and oftentimes teen pregnancies and thus abortions. Not if you give them condoms, but why are you only talking about teeaangers? Adults fornicate too. They fornicate even more than teenagers. Do you think the governemnet should tell them not to do it? Can you explain why homosexuality is immoral? How about “adultery” within open marriages? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/164 "2010-03-25T04:04:04Z")
Hey Curtis, I’m a 55 year old woman. I can tell you for a fact that sex is good. Actually, it’s even better than good, it’s great. Doesn’t matter if it’s within or without the vows of marriage, it’s really really awesome if you’re doing it right with the right person. As a 13 year old you will have no idea what good, loving sex can bring to your life until you experience it. I only hope that someday you do. Many never do. Until you do I suggest you not speak ill of “fornication”. It just makes you sound ignorant. When you become pregnant I will support whatever CHOICE you make about your situation. I only expect that you do the same for my daughters and grand-daughters. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/165 "2010-03-25T04:37:13Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The vast majority of women who have abortions are not because they were raped but because they voluntarily had sex. Irrelevant. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > For instance you’re not allowed to kill people with Alzheimer’s or those in a coma or without permission those in a vegetative state. If their brains are badly damaged enough, yes they can be “killed”, because they are already dead for practical purposes. Do you want to outlaw organ harvests as well? > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > They undermine social cohesion, decays the moral character of the people, force the government to provide birth control for free (I don’t oppose it for moral reasons but for financial reasons), and oftentimes teen pregnancies and thus abortions. All nonsense. It’s your proposals that undercut “social cohesion”; and at any rate “social cohesion” isn’t a good enough reason to reduce women to breeding animals. And the idea that of saving money by no providing birth control just demonstrates how anti-woman your position is; you want to make it hard to avoid getting pregnant, forbid your victim from getting an abortion, shovel as much hardship onto women as you can. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/166 "2010-03-25T06:10:05Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > In response to a thread about how many religious conservatives object to a UHC bill because they believe it will fund abortions would you support a deal with religious conservatives to support an unilateral ban on abortion by constitutional amendment except if the mother’s life is threatened in exchange for a comprehensive universal health care bill and immigration reform? No, because whether some stranger carries a pregnancy to term is neither your business nor mine. If religious people don’t like the fact abortion is legal they can find another religion. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/167 "2010-03-25T10:26:12Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The immorality of […] homosexuality[…] My, my, the Dope’s homophobes get younger and younger every year. Hey, **Curtis** , where does \*miscegenation \*fit into your morality? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/168 "2010-03-25T15:35:16Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > They undermine social cohesion, decays the moral character of the people, force the government to provide birth control for free (I don’t oppose it for moral reasons but for financial reasons), and oftentimes teen pregnancies and thus abortions. I have a question. Look at the current situation. You believe that, at the moment, the situation is such that there are considerable (or, at least, avoidable) problems with society. Apparently a majority of the people are for it, in general, whilst your views are in the minority - otherwise you wouldn’t need legislation. If you passed laws censoring and inflicting a moral standard - aren’t you worried that the moral standard that will be inflicted won’t be _yours_? What if the government of the times uses those laws and that power to, rather than aid your cause, but work against it? Rather than moving towards your position there’s a good chance that things might move away. That’s the problem with giving the government too much power (well, one of them). They’re under no obligation to use it to further your particular wishes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/169 "2010-03-25T18:46:11Z")
No, because they are not anybody’s to trade. A human being has a right to health care and the health decisions made are not government’s to make, they are the patient’s decisions to make. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/170 "2010-03-25T19:06:09Z")
Conservatives: would you support a total ban on and confiscation of all firearms to maintain the pre-HCR health care status quo and open up the ANWR for drilling? Thought not. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/171 "2010-03-26T14:32:07Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > > > > > It’s ridiculous to suggest that this is a solution to unwanted pregnancy, and it would still force women to carry pregnancies to term against their will. > > > > > > Well maybe they should have shown more judgement and wisdom in the beginning. > > > > This is a truly ignorant statement. I mean that literally. It is an uninformed and ignorant thing to say. It’s also callous and unChristian. > > The vast majority of women who have abortions are not because they were raped but because they voluntarily had sex. You seem to be under the impression that only impulsive, unwed, teenage girls have unwanted pregnancies. You couldn’t be more misinformed. How do you define judgment and wisdom with regard to having sex? Waiting until you’re married? Using contraceptives? Sounds reasonable. If you know so much about contraceptives, no contraceptive exists that is 100% efficacious. Women DO get pregnant while responsibly trying to prevent conception. So, what’s a married woman who doesn’t want to get pregnant to do? Would you suggest that married men and women abstain from all sexual relations once they have decided that procreation is no longer a desired outcome? You should also realize that as common as pregnancy and childbirth is, it is not without it’s health risks, particularly for older women. Not just for the woman, but for the fetus as well. For instance, at age 40, there is a 1 in 160 chance of a woman producing a baby with Down’s Syndrome. Compare that to a 20 year-old woman, whose risk is 1:1,667. Women, however, can remain reproductively fertile until their late 50s. Women in their 50s commonly have chronic illnesses such as hypertension, diabetes, and hypothyroidism, for example, which can be dangerously aggravated by carrying a pregnancy to term. Further, they are likely at a place in their lives at which raising a child can be physically, emotionally and mentally less than ideal for both the mother and child. Suffice it to say, pregnancy in older women is not a matter to be taken with such a cavalier attitude. Guess what: married women using contraceptives have unwanted pregnancies, too. Why should their rights be denied because you and your religious friends disapprove of the the behavior of young, unmarried, impulsive women? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/172 "2010-03-27T02:15:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That would cost you billions of dollars a year. Where are you going to get the money? The UHC bill’s budget is well into the hundreds of billions-certainly they can’t spare a billion or two for this? > [@](#): > > What does this have to do with clumps of insentient tissue which are not, and never will be people? They will never be people only because they will be aborted. > [@](#): > > This is just a restatement of the premise. You can’t say something is immoral because it’s immoral. That’s redundant. A focus on sex is a primitive return to primate instincts and keeps humans away from higher ideals. > [@](#): > > Not if you give them condoms, but why are you only talking about teeaangers? Adults fornicate too. They fornicate even more than teenagers. Do you think the governemnet should tell them not to do it? If they want to have sex than I won’t stop them. > [@](#): > > Can you explain why homosexuality is immoral? How about “adultery” within open marriages? It causes chaos and undermines procreation. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If their brains are badly damaged enough, yes they can be “killed”, because they are already dead for practical purposes. Do you want to outlaw organ harvests as well? In organ harvests the subject is permanently, irrevocably DEAD. > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I have a question. > > Look at the current situation. You believe that, at the moment, the situation is such that there are considerable (or, at least, avoidable) problems with society. Apparently a majority of the people are for it, in general, whilst your views are in the minority - otherwise you wouldn’t need legislation. If you passed laws censoring and inflicting a moral standard - aren’t you worried that the moral standard that will be inflicted won’t be _yours_? What if the government of the times uses those laws and that power to, rather than aid your cause, but work against it? Rather than moving towards your position there’s a good chance that things might move away. > > That’s the problem with giving the government too much power (well, one of them). They’re under no obligation to use it to further your particular wishes. I’m not going to ban fornication or homosexuality-the only thing I favour banning is abortion. > [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > You seem to be under the impression that only impulsive, unwed, teenage girls have unwanted pregnancies. You couldn’t be more misinformed. > > How do you define judgment and wisdom with regard to having sex? Waiting until you’re married? Using contraceptives? Sounds reasonable. > > If you know so much about contraceptives, no contraceptive exists that is 100% efficacious. Women DO get pregnant while responsibly trying to prevent conception. > > So, what’s a married woman who doesn’t want to get pregnant to do? Would you suggest that married men and women abstain from all sexual relations once they have decided that procreation is no longer a desired outcome? > > You should also realize that as common as pregnancy and childbirth is, it is not without it’s health risks, particularly for older women. Not just for the woman, but for the fetus as well. For instance, at age 40, there is a 1 in 160 chance of a woman producing a baby with Down’s Syndrome. Compare that to a 20 year-old woman, whose risk is 1:1,667. Women, however, can remain reproductively fertile until their late 50s. Women in their 50s commonly have chronic illnesses such as hypertension, diabetes, and hypothyroidism, for example, which can be dangerously aggravated by carrying a pregnancy to term. Further, they are likely at a place in their lives at which raising a child can be physically, emotionally and mentally less than ideal for both the mother and child. Suffice it to say, pregnancy in older women is not a matter to be taken with such a cavalier attitude. > > Guess what: married women using contraceptives have unwanted pregnancies, too. Why should their rights be denied because you and your religious friends disapprove of the the behavior of young, unmarried, impulsive women? There is a 100% guarantee birth control-sterilization and if a couple’s old but don’t want kids and still want sex they probably should sterilize themselves. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/173 "2010-03-27T02:18:44Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The UHC bill’s budget is well into the hundreds of billions-certainly they can’t spare a billion or two for this? Oh look, another pony! They are reproducing a lot these days! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/174 "2010-03-27T02:55:02Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > They will never be people only because they will be aborted. And? Billions of sperm and eggs and and fetuses never become people for one reason or another. The vast majority of “potential humans” will never exist regardless of abortion. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > A focus on sex is a primitive return to primate instincts and keeps humans away from higher ideals. Ah, the typical Christian hatred of life and pleasure and affection. Let me guess, the higher ideal in this case would be Christianity, your grim grey death cult of guilt and malice? > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It causes chaos and undermines procreation. Homosexuality doesn’t “create chaos”. And even if it did interfere with procreation, so what? We are greatly overpopulated, not underpopulated. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > In organ harvests the subject is permanently, irrevocably DEAD. And with abortions the tissue in question was never even a person; not even a dead one. If anything they deserve less consideration. At any rate; the two cases are directly comparable because with both there is no one there. Just tissue. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > There is a 100% guarantee birth control-sterilization and if a couple’s old but don’t want kids and still want sex they probably should sterilize themselves. Wonderful. So they aren’t allowed to change their minds, or to use less intrusive methods. They have to permanently sterilize themselves just so you can indulge your little sadistic power trip. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/175 "2010-03-27T02:58:38Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > There is a 100% guarantee birth control-sterilization and if a couple’s old but don’t want kids and still want sex they probably should sterilize themselves. Wrong. It’s not 100% effective and 1 in 3 pregnancies occurring following a sterilization of the woman results in ectopic pregnancy, which can be life-threatening. As with any surgical procedure there are risks that can be exacerbated by chronic illnesses. It is an extremely invasive procedure. You are young. I realize it’s difficult for you to understand that it’s completely normal for adults to engage in sexual activity well into old age for many reasons other than procreation. Intimacy being an important one. There is no reason to woman should be forced to choose an invasive procedure when there are less invasive, though highly effective contraceptive choices available. Nothing, not even, sterilization of either the man or woman is 100% effective. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/176 "2010-03-27T03:16:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And? Billions of sperm and eggs and and fetuses never become people for one reason or another. The vast majority of “potential humans” will never exist regardless of abortion. A sperm potential is roughly 0.0000001%- a fetus is much higher. > [@](#): > > Ah, the typical Christian hatred of life and pleasure and affection. Let me guess, the higher ideal in this case would be Christianity, your grim grey death cult of guilt and malice? God, not Christianity. > [@](#): > > Homosexuality doesn’t “create chaos”. And even if it did interfere with procreation, so what? We are greatly overpopulated, not underpopulated. In Europe due to below replacement birth rates they’re heading for a massive financial crisis where they can’t support the social welfare system of the enormous elderly population. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/177 "2010-03-27T04:01:29Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > A sperm potential is roughly 0.0000001%- a fetus is much higher. What in the world is that supposed to even mean? > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > God, not Christianity. :rolleyes: My, such a big distinction. That’s like claiming that you didn’t kill someone, it was those darned bullets. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > In Europe due to below replacement birth rates they’re heading for a massive financial crisis where they can’t support the social welfare system of the enormous elderly population. An exaggeration of the problem. And its certainly better than breeding until collapse and mass starvation. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/178 "2010-03-27T12:37:46Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > My pro-life views do not come from the Bible-the Bible never directly spoke against abortion however if logically someone’s going to be human he or she should have the right to live. And yet, the Bible does describe precisely the punishment against someone who causes the end of a woman’s pregnancy through an act of violence, and it is not the same punishment that one would receive for murder or an accidental death of an existing person. It’s not even as strict as the punishment as one would receive for burning someone or breaking their bone. So not only do your pro-life views not come from the Bible, your perspective on the personhood and rights and necessity of protection of fetuses _runs directly counter_ to the instructions of the Bible. As a Christian, that ought to give you pause. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/179 "2010-03-27T14:40:37Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > As my parents do not have healthcare I have some form of state health insurance. State, federal, whatever. Dump the insurance, if you really believe what you say. Put your money where your mouth is. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276/180 "2010-03-27T15:49:24Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > And yet, the Bible does describe precisely the punishment against someone who causes the end of a woman’s pregnancy through an act of violence, and it is not the same punishment that one would receive for murder or an accidental death of an existing person. It’s not even as strict as the punishment as one would receive for burning someone or breaking their bone. So not only do your pro-life views not come from the Bible, your perspective on the personhood and rights and necessity of protection of fetuses _runs directly counter_ to the instructions of the Bible. As a Christian, that ought to give you pause. I do not advocate executing abortionists or sentencing them with first-degree murder. > [@SteveG1](#): > > State, federal, whatever. Dump the insurance, if you really believe what you say. Put your money where your mouth is. I’m not against all government supported health care plans. I support the existence of such things as Medicaid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberals-would-you-support-an-abortion-ban-in-exchange-for-a-uhc-bill-and-immigration-reform/533276.md?page=10)