# Libertarian, bend over... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328 "2002-08-04T21:18:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/61 "2002-08-05T19:54:33Z")
If you don’t care about my opinions, perhaps you care about one of these kind folks opinions? **Ankh\_Too:** > [@](#): > > By the same token, complaining that you’re being piled on because of an unpopular opinion, doesn’t make it true. Has the possibility even crossed your mind that a lot of people are taking you to task, not because of diametrically opposed ideologies, but because you’re being an asshole? Or are you too in love with your own rectitude and obvious righteousness to even consider that you might have stepped over the line? **Ferrous** : > [@](#): > > Bacchus’ bulbous ballsack, Lib! What does the fact that you’re part Indian have to do with anything? Just “playing the race card” for sympathy? Implying that people here are disagreeing with you because they are prejudiced against “Injuns” is pretty darn offensive, IMO. > > I know Jesus is your best friend and all, but that cross is really only meant for one, so get off it, okay? **OpalCat** > [@](#): > > Does it not occur to you that people honestly criticising and asking for answers does not constitute a Big Nasty Attack and you don’t need to rescue her? She isn’t some fainting damsel, in case you hadn’t noticed. **stofsky** : > [@](#): > > Ummm, yeah, Lib, get off the cross; some of us want to use the mesquite for steaks. > > This post is in no way meant to impugn the beliefs or symbols of Christianity. Rather, it is merely a reference to the concept of the martyr, which role Lib is playing like Judy Garland at a gay dinner theatre. **essvee** : > [@](#): > > Lib, you’re acting most pathetically. **Truth Seeker** : > [@](#): > > The “Injun” comment gives off the smell of severe overheating which may signal an incipient meltdown. Also **OpalCat** : > [@](#): > > So Lib is part Indian? And he actually thought that had something to do with people being annoyed by him? Exactly how egocentric is this guy to think that most of us even KNOW (or care) about his ethnic background? **Guinastasia** : > [@](#): > > Lib AND grienspace-get off the fucking cross already! > > Yeesh! **Squish** : > [@](#): > > So take the nails out of your hands, brush the chip off your shoulder, and start engaging people on an intelligent basis, rather than your current “Lo, the poor Indian! The noble Indian! The true American who has been so long oppressed and mistreated! Pity the poor Indian!” stance. It’s outdated and stereotypical. **matt\_mcl** : > [@](#): > > Well, for those of you who are asking about playing the race card, the fact is that during the whole Tuba debacle, he suddenly dropped in a complaint about how everyone was ganging up on him because he is Native, when nobody had even mentioned it. It was a complete non sequitur, as is evinced by the fact that very few people even knew he was Native to begin with. Noticing a pattern? Despite all of these people pointing out your obvious jerkish behaivior, you still haven’t addressed it. Is there any possible defense (a reasonable defense) of this self-pitying, look-at-me-I’m-a-martyr statement? Incidentaly, the “well I don’t care what you think” strategy is pathetic. It illustrates that the speaker is unable to use reason to defend his position. Failing that, he resorts to childish ball taking home behaivior. It counts as a victory for your detractors in my book if that’s all you’ve got left. If you choose not to address these people’s points, and instead say that you care not, well, you’ve just made yourself look like a 12 year old. But let me guess, you don’t care. But you _do_ care enough to post that you don’t care. Uh-huh. I really have come to expect more from you, **Lib**. You’re losing it lately. Oh, and since you brought it up in such an insulting fashion, just what do you think is important to me in life? DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/62 "2002-08-05T20:11:17Z")
Well, let’s see… From that list, I value the opinions of Ferrous, Opal, Truth, Guin, and Matt. > [@](#): > > Noticing a pattern? Despite all of these people pointing out your obvious jerkish behaivior, you still haven’t addressed it. Is there any possible defense (a reasonable defense) of this self-pitying, look-at-me-I’m-a-martyr statement? I believe they’ve dropped their stones and moved on. You alone are here making a fool out of yourself. > [@](#): > > Incidentaly, the “well I don’t care what you think” strategy is pathetic. […shrug…] I don’t care what you think is pathetic, either. > [@](#): > > Oh, and since you brought it up in such an insulting fashion, just what do you think is important to me in life? Riding my ass, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/63 "2002-08-05T20:18:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Riding my ass, apparently. If you were single, I’d consider it a worthy goal myself, **Lib**. :o And I mean that in the best way possible.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/64 "2002-08-05T20:25:59Z")
I consider that a great compliment, Homebrew, since it comes from someone I so greatly admire. Thank you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/65 "2002-08-05T20:38:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Well, let’s see… From that list, I value the opinions of Ferrous, Opal, Truth, Guin, and Matt. > \*\* I’m touched **Lib**! I truly am. 🙂 (How did you like my colorful religious-themed yet inoffesnsive-to-modern-faiths exclamation, by the way?) In fact, I value your opinion as well. But I do think you occasionally have a tendency to back yourself into a corner, and you have a hard time retreating gracefully when your back is up. Not at all an uncommon trait—I’ve done it myself on occasion, as have a lot of us ( **DJ** , I’m looking at you…). In this case, I think you did it in an (unecessary, IMO, but still laudable) attempt to defend **Tuba** ’s honor. Perhaps you went a bit too far trying to cover for her? I don’t know. I thought so at the time. Perhaps you disagree. Eh, whatever. As you say, I’ve “dropped my stones and moved on.” Now where’s that peace pipe?😃 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/66 "2002-08-05T20:49:58Z")
'Ere! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/67 "2002-08-05T20:52:10Z")
You value their opinions and yet you never once acknowledged that they had a valid point and that perhaps you were in the wrong. I’ve learned alot about you today. A Christian, huh? But you don’t care about your fellow man? Come to think of it, I guess you are just like the god portrayed in the bible. You only care about those who agree with you and support you. The rest be damned. That’s about it for me, I suppose. I hope if you reflect back on this thread that you realize that I made these points not to spite you, but because I really feel like you said something which was totally inappropriate. But you’ll probably maintain your delusions of special persecution anyway. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/68 "2002-08-05T21:04:59Z")
I think one of the challenges of my moral journey is to learn to love people like you, DJ. This morning, I regretted making the statement that the greatness of nonexistence is zero. (Ultra made what I considered to be a compelling argument that that cannot be the case.) I changed my mind, and acknowledged I was wrong. Last week, I regretted making the statement that the Parallel Line Axiom was not a universal truth. (Math Geek convinced me otherwise.) I conceded the point and promised never again to cite the Parallel Line Axiom as an example of a possible modal status. If I hurt myself in defending Tuba (assuming your criticism has merit) then I don’t regret that. You are unaware of her extraordinary kindnesses to me when I needed them most. I would sacrifice my own honor to defend hers any day. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/69 "2002-08-05T21:10:10Z")
DJ! LIB! I swear to God, if I have to pull this car over, you will be _very very_ sorry. Each of you, stay on your own side. Do not _touch_ each other, do not _speak to_ each other, do not _look at_ each other. DJ, you look out your window; LIB, you look out yours, and _not another word from either of you_ for at _least_ fifty miles. If you can’t behave there will be _no swimming_ when we get to the hotel, and you can just forget about pizza for dinner. I mean it. Don’t make me tell you again. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/70 "2002-08-05T21:38:41Z")
Otay, mommie. I sowee. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/71 "2002-08-05T21:48:58Z")
**daovindj** , I think what the SDMB needs is a digital analogue (if that’s not a contradiction-in-terms,) of MDMA. We’d have this mess sorted out in thirty minutes, tops. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/72 "2002-08-05T21:49:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I suggest that what you have going for you is a grandiose sense of self-importance and a nearly psychotic take on what is important in life. ‘Grandiose sense of self-importance’? That’s not **dalovindj** , here or elsewhere. And I’m missing the overtones of psychosis completely. Whatever was right or wrong with **dalovindj** ’s attack on you, **Lib** , this response would be so far off base as to be laughable, if it weren’t for the disconnect with reality it suggests. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/73 "2002-08-05T21:50:56Z")
Ooh, **Jodi**! You’re so _sexy_ when you get all stern like that!😉 ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/74 "2002-08-05T21:53:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > **You offended me and alot of other people with your little indian comment. If you don’t care that you’ve offended people, fine.** So, does this mean you’ve joined the . . . what did you call it in Great Debates the other day . . . the Whiny PC Language Bitches? “Gooble, gobble, one of us! Gooble, gobble, one of us!!” Frustrating to be on the other side, isn’t it? > [@](#): > > You wanna suck my _what_? Oh, I know this one! This is that thing where you imply, slyly ( :rolleyes: ) , that someone wants to perform fellatio on you when they said no such thing, with the implication that they must be a complete pervert and weirdo for wanting to do so (even though they never said any such thing), and then deny that it’s homophobic, right? Really, though, what exactly is your damage, here? Just about 90% of the posters in this particular thread thought that the OP was unwarranted, and you seem to be unable to just let it go. What do you hope to gain, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/75 "2002-08-05T21:57:27Z")
> [@](#): > > If I hurt myself in defending Tuba (assuming your criticism has merit) then I don’t regret that. You are unaware of her extraordinary kindnesses to me when I needed them most. I would sacrifice my own honor to defend hers any day. She is worthy of such a sentiment, without a doubt. You should think about the possibility that your attempts to defend her (and any endeavor that you may deem worthy) may be all the more effective if you don’t take the stance of one being persecuted because of their heritage. This does two things as I see it: 1. Distracts from your overall message. In this case “Back off of **TD**.” 2. Does a disservice to any time such an event _has_ occured. When someone is attacked based on the color of their skin it is a horrible thing. You certainly seemed to imply this had happened. I think we can agree that you were not attacked because of your ethnicity. I hope so, at least. That’s it really. I don’t want to keep throwing insults at you. This _is_ the pit, and I like speaking in a flip tone. Still, I want to address one other thing that you said. I’ll leave the aggressive tone out. You said that I seem to think this is all very important, and that I don’t like you. Two different points, but I think I can address them at the same time: One of the things that I love about this place is that I can talk about theology with people who have really put alot of thought into it. I come from a very devout baptist family on one side, and hard atheists on the other. The subject intrests me to no end, and unfortunately, IRL, I have seldom been able to find people who can have an intelligent conversation about it. Most folks just pick a belief and move on, expecting that they are right and not caring if they are wrong. They look down on others with differing beliefs and go about their lives. But here the religious and the atheists and the agnostics have an open discussion running. Many of them in fact. These are highly intelligent people who believe many different things, and who have put a tremendous amount of thought into it. It is these discussions where I have run into you before. It is something that I enjoy. I do care about what you say. And I do like you, at times. We can’t truly know each other thru this medium, we can only know what we tell each other thru the written word (some words written better than others). I have agreed with some things you have said, and disagreed with more, but found you to be inciteful and interesting to listen to. As an agnostic, I fear no retribution in an afterlife. I must build my own moral code. I take what I find to be good and use it in my life. These conversations I have here reflect my thought on these issues and what gets said here does effect me and I do think of them in my day to day life. It’s not like I couldn’t live without it, but I think having such an outlet is an important part of my life. If that makes me foolish, to take these things seriously, and to feel that maybe this place and the way people behave may have _some_ importance, then so be it, I guess. Sorry that you, a person trying to love everybody in the whole history of the world, has so much trouble loving someone like myself. And I regret that my words mean nothing to you, because yours have certainly meant something to me. DaLovin’ DJ ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/76 "2002-08-05T22:03:24Z")
Daym, and I used to sometimes agree with **Libertarian**. Circle the wagons and shoot his / her ass before **Libertarian** opens a casino on us. This was an attempt at humor. Lighten up people. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/77 "2002-08-05T22:08:02Z")
> [@](#): > > So, does this mean you’ve joined the . . . what did you call it in Great Debates the other day . . . the Whiny PC Language Bitches? Oh the irony didn’t escape me and the turn of phrase was quite intentional. Kind of like a pop culture reference. An SDMB in-joke if you get my drift. But this situation is a bit different. If he wasn’t trying to imply that they were attacking him because of his ethicity then I would have no problem with the term injun. It is what he meant that I have tried to take him to tsk for here, not the history of the words he used. > [@](#): > > Oh, I know this one! This is that thing where you imply, slyly ( ) , that someone wants to perform fellatio on you when they said no such thing, with the implication that they must be a complete pervert and weirdo for wanting to do so (even though they never said any such thing), and then deny that it’s homophobic, right? Almost, but not quite. The italics on the word imply that I took what he meant to mean something I find shocking. It is up to the listener to determine what I would find shocking. Surprinsingly, blowjobs don’t shock me. With that info one must now consider what _could_ **Lib** want to suck on that I pocess which would shock me. I’ll give you a hint. You can find in most homes. It’s like the three sea shells thing. It’s funny cause ya never know. I’m not a bigot. Honestly. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/78 "2002-08-05T22:11:47Z")
Awww, I didn’t make **Lib** ’s list of important people? Gawrsh, and who am I to call an asshole an asshole, anyhow? ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/79 "2002-08-05T22:15:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\*She is worthy of such a sentiment, without a doubt. You should think about the possibility that your attempts to defend her (and any endeavor that you may deem worthy) may be all the more effective if you don’t take the stance of one being persecuted because of their heritage. This does two things as I see it: > > 1. Distracts from your overall message. In this case “Back off of **TD**.” > > 2. Does a disservice to any time such an event _has_ occured. > > When someone is attacked based on the color of their skin it is a horrible thing. You certainly seemed to imply this had happened. I think we can agree that you were not attacked because of your ethnicity. I hope so, at least.\*\* \ Well spoke! Exactly how I felt about it, and I wish I could have put it so well. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328/80 "2002-08-05T22:26:42Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by stofsky \* \*\*Awww, I didn’t make **Lib** ’s list of important people? Gawrsh, and who am I to call an asshole an asshole, anyhow? \*\*[/QUOTE hell, I didn’t even make ‘the list’ of people suggesting the **Lib** cool it a tad. but now that the fireworks have settled down to a nice open campfire, let’s break out the marshmellows and sing “_Kumbaya_” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-bend-over/122328.md?page=5)