# Libertarian is a bully, a bully, bully **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2004, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835 "2004-03-06T09:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/181 "2004-03-06T18:34:51Z")
Thanks, **iampunha**! Heh, heh, heh! Watch out, **N H I B I**! When the next big word attack comes, you’re gonna be out-gunned! > [@](#): > > Polycystines have siliceous skeletons! > [@](#): > > radiolarian ooze! > [@](#): > > Most dinoflagellates are phototrophic! We got some big words now, you betcha! Are we afraid? ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/182 "2004-03-06T18:39:11Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > This guy who works at Target is the source of the proof, or merely the custodian? Oh, yea, Target’s got some brilliant philosophy. Down the aisle, right past the dorm furniture, can’t miss it. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/183 "2004-03-06T18:40:49Z")
> [@gluteus maximus](#): > > We got some big words now, you betcha! Are we afraid? Just as long as neither of three things happens, you’re all set: 1. Giant sentient squid feed on enough of those things and their descendents to appear somewhere (probably the coast of some country). 2. You don’t catch pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis 3. A radical (or maybe not so radical) party of antidisestablishmentarianists doesn’t emerge from within a small town. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/184 "2004-03-06T18:49:16Z")
> [@GMRyujin](#): > > Oh, yea, Target’s got some brilliant philosophy. Down the aisle, right past the dorm furniture, can’t miss it. You’re just being silly, that’s where the small electrical appliances are. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/185 "2004-03-06T18:51:50Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > You’re just being silly, that’s where the small electrical appliances are. Occam’s Razors, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/186 "2004-03-06T18:53:08Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > I’m cetainly not the quickest wit in the world but even I could see that **Lib** was using the God exists example as a corollary. You’re suppsed to substitute “the supernatural” for “God”. Why should he? He wasn’t talking about god, he was talking about ghosts, psychics, and the like. I knew it, and **Lib** knew it. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Also, when called on his bullshit, he mysteriously disappears_ > > Excuse me? _You’re_ the one who went to bed and never returned to the thread!Translation: “I’m getting my ass kicked. Time to bow out of this thread.” Uh, it’d been half an hour, dude. Maybe you want to wait a few hours. Or maybe you think you’re being funny. I’m pretty well set on **NHIBI** ’s side in this one. **Libertarian** was being a smartass, something he knew he could get away with because his victim didn’t have the intellectual ammunition to nail him for it. Hell, far smarter people than **NHIBI** got caught up in the web. I don’t know if **Lib** actually believes that “proof”; it seems impossible to me, but I know that some do. I also know he’s easily capable of hiding his real opinion in layers of conditions, exceptions, misdirections, and changes of subject. When the soundness of the argument was challenged, he defended its validity (which had not been questioned). When I challenged one of the predicates of the argument (that a supreme being implies necessary existence), he defended its converse (that necessary existence implies a supreme being) – a statement which, even stipulated, gets nowhere. When a strong man uses his strength to help others, he’s a hero; when he uses it to harm others, he’s a bully. When a smart man uses his wits to intimidate a lesser man into giving up his position (instead of convincing him), or to confuse him into defending positions he doesn’t even hold–well, it’s certainly not heroic. One might even say it’s…coercive? ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/187 "2004-03-06T18:53:19Z")
> [@gluteus maximus](#): > > OOOOH! > > Can I have that for a sig line? Pretty pretty please!!! > 😃 Sure. Thanks for the link, Lib. I’d gotten the general gist of the argument before, but that page helped me understand it more thoroughly. ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/188 "2004-03-06T19:00:17Z")
WOWSIE! Now we’ve really got some bigguns! Hooo! Youbetcha! Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis is way cool! I like this word for its sheer unpronouncibility; ‘FLOCCINAUCINIHILIPILIFICATION’. If we resist the urge to limit ourselves to words of the English language, then we can rejoice in _ **KYUKITSUROHEKIMENFUCHAKUNENRYOSEKISANRYO** _ meaning ‘the accumulated amount of fuel condensed on the wall face of the air intake passage.’ PS: Thanks, **Gadfly**! ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/189 "2004-03-06T19:04:24Z")
> [@gluteus maximus](#): > > I like this word for its sheer unpronouncibility; ‘FLOCCINAUCINIHILIPILIFICATION’. Fneh. Flocksinocksinihillipillifickashun. Let’s just not allow medical terms, else someone be tempted to bring in a polysaccharide with a name longer than a Faulkner sentence. Yes, they exist (not sure if they’re specifically or particularly polysaccharides, but I believe they’re organic molecules). ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/190 "2004-03-06T19:07:53Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > Occam’s Razors, for example. Round of applause there. Memorably clever. I will be quoting this soon at dinner parties - you will do the setup and I will say, dry as Death Valley, “Occam’s Razors, for example.” ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/191 "2004-03-06T19:26:42Z")
Man, them’s some $10 words. ::scratch:: ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/192 "2004-03-06T19:52:53Z")
Anselm derails on point one and moots the whole thing: “Now we believe that [the Lord] is something than which nothing greater can be imagined.” A real life, mortal person who sacrifices and succeeds and helps others and through it all achieves real, mortal happiness, and dies and is fondly remembered, is the greatest thing imaginable. A supernatural being, who lives without obstacles, bereft of humility, and acting as dictator in chief of the Universe is hardly the epitome of greatness. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/193 "2004-03-06T20:19:42Z")
I agree with **Nametag**. I think in the original thread it was obvious that the OP meant ghosts, spooks, poltergeists - that kind of thing. To, within 6 posts, jump from “my friends are shitheads for thinking ghosts are making the creaky noises in their houses” to “YOU’RE _ **INSULTING MY RELIGION** _!!!111 And…\*\*I can prove it with logic \*\*RIGHT IN YOUR THREAD!!!111!lOMGLOL” is completely ridiculous. I think the OP _should_ take a deep breath and a step back - which he has TRIED to do by _specifically asking_ that this thread be locked (and then was taunted for it - nice pile-on, guys) - but I don’t think his ire is entirely misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/194 "2004-03-06T20:27:14Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > Round of applause there. Memorably clever. I will be quoting this soon at dinner parties - you will do the setup and I will say, dry as Death Valley, “Occam’s Razors, for example.” For a second there I thought you were asking me to be your straight man:D And this: > [@](#): > > A real life, mortal person who sacrifices and succeeds and helps others and through it all achieves real, mortal happiness, and dies and is fondly remembered, is the greatest thing imaginable. in light of the past few days’ events, is true in a most bittersweet way. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/195 "2004-03-06T20:33:02Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > Interesting, unlike real proofs it is [not universally accepted](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_argument) so where are we now? Well, we’re getting closer. Let’s see. You asked for an explanation of the symbols. I linked you to a very thorough one. I don’t know whether you read it. You came back and ridiculed Tisthammer, something about him working at Target. (He actually is a philosophy grad student, and has posted here at the Dope.) You asked me whether he originated it. I gave you a link to one of the originators, Alvin Plantinga, an eminent 20th century philosopher. You responded with a link to the 11th century theologian, Anselm of Canterbury. So where are we? I guess if you’ll move on through Descartes, Kant, Leibnitz, Godel, and Hartshorne, you’ll be where you can tap me on the shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/196 "2004-03-06T21:35:30Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > I don’t know if **Lib** actually believes that “proof”; it seems impossible to me, but I know that some do. I also know he’s easily capable of hiding his real opinion in layers of conditions, exceptions, misdirections, and changes of subject. When the soundness of the argument was challenged, he defended its validity (which had not been questioned). When I challenged one of the predicates of the argument (that a supreme being implies necessary existence), he defended its converse (that necessary existence implies a supreme being) – a statement which, even stipulated, gets nowhere. > > When a strong man uses his strength to help others, he’s a hero; when he uses it to harm others, he’s a bully. When a smart man uses his wits to intimidate a lesser man into giving up his position (instead of convincing him), or to confuse him into defending positions he doesn’t even hold–well, it’s certainly not heroic. One might even say it’s…coercive? The word you’re looking for, I believe, is “sophistry.” I’m sure **Lib** is smart enough to trot out a beautifully reasoned argument that proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that leprechauns exist. One can either expend vast amounts of effort trying to pick the argument apart, or one can simply recognize that the conclusion is obviously nonsense, and just walk away. If one enjoys the intellectual challenge of trying to figure out where the logical holes have occurred, more power to him, but if one is trying to make sense of the real world, **Lib’s** contributions are often, shall we say, less than helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/197 "2004-03-06T21:43:44Z")
Well, I don’t know anything about leprechauns, and I can’t prove they exist. But in GD, I just informed someone that law is for the purpose of protecting government, not citizens. I think that’s helpful in the real world, isn’t it? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/198 "2004-03-06T21:51:51Z")
Congratulations…y’all have just given the biggest attention whore exactly what he wanted. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/199 "2004-03-06T21:52:11Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Well, I don’t know anything about leprechauns, and I can’t prove they exist. But in GD, I just informed someone that law is for the purpose of protecting government, not citizens. I think that’s helpful in the real world, isn’t it? 🙂 I guess I didn’t make myself clear enough. I’m in the “walk away” camp. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/200 "2004-03-06T22:02:10Z")
By “away” did you mean “into the thread”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835.md?page=11)