# Libertarian is a bully, a bully, bully **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2004, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835 "2004-03-06T09:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/141 "2004-03-06T16:47:53Z")
Who else here enjoys the taste of a little goat flesh now and then? ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Have_I_Because_I)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/142 "2004-03-06T16:48:35Z")
> [@andros](#): > > And, what? Discarded it? Yep. Can you cite me some stuff that would prove me wrong? I would be grateful. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/143 "2004-03-06T16:48:57Z")
> [@Never Have I Because I](#): > > I apologized, I am waiting for an acceptance of said apology. Then _ **STOp POSTING!!!** _ ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/144 "2004-03-06T16:49:35Z")
> [@Never Have I Because I](#): > > Fenris, I am unhappy with him using big words and famous names to make himself look smarter. **BUT THAT’S THE WAY HE TALKS.** There is no pretense. _THAT IS THE WAY HE TALKS._ He was not going the extra mile for you. He talks about stuff he knows and that’s how he expresses himself. Always has been. I, and a lot of other people I know, are often told that we “talk funny.” (We’re told this by people who do not have a great vocabulary.) We are told this because we use words that they don’t understand. I never use big words for the sake of using big words and neither does anyone else I know. If someone assumes that I am talking “funny” on purpose, that’s their problem. I refuse to dumb down the way I express myself to a fellow native speaker, simply because they are _too freakin’ ignorant_ to understand me. I make exceptions for children or non-native speakers. I don’t think that my vocabulary is that impressive. (I’m sure everyone here will agree—it’s average.) I just speak English, that’s all. If they ask me what a word means, I will happily tell them and with no condescension. I _respect_ people who ask for a definition. I certainly have asked for plenty of definitions in my day. I _don’t_ respect someone who bitches at me (or anyone else) because they think we use too many “big words,” and therefore we must dumb down ourselves to cater to their ignorance. I see no reason why Lib should have to cater to such ignorance either. ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Have_I_Because_I)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/145 "2004-03-06T16:50:14Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Then _ **STOp POSTING!!!** _ Why? Ilsa Lund, I think you need to calm down. OK? ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/146 "2004-03-06T16:50:17Z")
I can’t believe that I fucked that up. :smack: :o Continuing to argue and make stupid jokes won’t increase the probability of your apology being accepted. Apologize and make a graceful exit. Learning to do that is very important. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/147 "2004-03-06T16:54:54Z")
> [@Never Have I Because I](#): > > Fenris, I am unhappy with him using big words and famous names to make himself look smarter. > > An example: > > If I taught myself the words and phrases associated with an occupation or science and then used it in appropriate spots, I could make myself look more intelligent by appearing to have a great aptitude and understanding of said subject. It doesn’t mean I have a aptitude for said science or ocupation For fucks’ sake. Has it ever occurred to you that, I dunno, he perhaps _knows_ what the hell he’s talking about and drops names, theories, and words you don’t understand because they’re exactly the names, theories, and words relevant to the discussion? That it’s not done out of pretense? Because thus far you haven’t offered any evidence to the contrary. Sure, I think good speakers or debaters will tailor their words depending on their audience. Most people get very touchy if you use too many unfamilar concepts or words with them (see the OP.) However, this is the Straight Dope. This is the one place I feel, and I think the rest of us feel, where we can discuss and debate to the fullest of our intellectual abilities and not have our audience grumble about citing obscure sources. ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Have_I_Because_I)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/148 "2004-03-06T16:57:29Z")
> [@yosemitebabe](#): > > \*\* > I _don’t_ respect someone who bitches at me (or anyone else) because they think we use too many “big words,” and therefore we must dumb down ourselves to cater to their ignorance. > > I see no reason why Lib should have to cater to such ignorance either. I do not need dumbing down. If someone does not understand something, is it that hard to clarify? To put it into simpler terms? I suppose anyone who doesn’t understand physics and needs someone to dumb it down for them to understand is obviously an idiot, then? Cause that’s what your train of logic seems to be. I do understand most ‘big’ words, and if not, I can look them up. From what Libertarian said, I felt like I needed to cram several logic books down my head to make sense of what he was saying. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/149 "2004-03-06T16:59:11Z")
> [@Never Have I Because I](#): > > From what Libertarian said, I felt like I needed to cram several logic books down my head to make sense of what he was saying. You _do._ What part about that don’t you understand? There are people smarter than you, who may talk about things you don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/150 "2004-03-06T17:01:13Z")
> [@Never Have I Because I](#): > > Yep. Can you cite me some stuff that would prove me wrong? I would be grateful. I doubt that very much. I have known Lib online for years now. I’ve interacted with him here and on other MBs a number of times. We’ve disagreed, sometimes vociferously, and we continue to on certain essential and fundamental philosophical points. He’s tested my intellect. I’ve learned a lot. I’ve come away convinced that he ain’t dumb. But short of citing his entire corpus of posts here, no. There’s just no way I can convince you simply and succinctly that he is not a poseur, if that’s what you choose to believe. I think he’s smart. You don’t have to. But I think it might be good to remember that I’ve dealt with the man for a lot longer than you. 'Course, you have no reason to believe my sincerity, or my intelligence, either. Perhaps I’m a poseur too. :shrug: I’m over it. ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Have_I_Because_I)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/151 "2004-03-06T17:01:15Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > You _do._ What part about that don’t you understand? There are people smarter than you, who may talk about things you don’t understand. And somehow, because I don’t have several books of logic jammed into my brain, I’m an idiot that can’t understand ‘big words’? ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/152 "2004-03-06T17:01:42Z")
Everybody take a BIG, DEEP breath… and repeat after me, I _ **DO** _ believe in faeries! I do I do I **DO**! I _ **DO** _ believe in faeries! I do I do I **DO**! They make the ghosts go away! Hooray! Hooray! ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Have_I_Because_I)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/153 "2004-03-06T17:02:45Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I doubt that very much. > > I have known Lib online for years now. I’ve interacted with him here and on other MBs a number of times. We’ve disagreed, sometimes vociferously, and we continue to on certain essential and fundamental philosophical points. He’s tested my intellect. I’ve learned a lot. > > I’ve come away convinced that he ain’t dumb. > > But short of citing his entire corpus of posts here, no. There’s just no way I can convince you simply and succinctly that he is not a poseur, if that’s what you choose to believe. > > I think he’s smart. You don’t have to. But I think it might be good to remember that I’ve dealt with the man for a lot longer than you. > > 'Course, you have no reason to believe my sincerity, or my intelligence, either. Perhaps I’m a poseur too. > > :shrug: > > I’m over it. You seem angry and exasperated, and I’m sorry if I troubled you. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/154 "2004-03-06T17:03:21Z")
The whole basis of logical argument is to persuade not to bully. And watch that “dumb jock” stereotyping. The two most intelligent men I’ve ever known were both hulking football players, and I’ve known too many dimwitted nerds and too many smart athletes to buy into that noise. [/quote] \*\* Me too. But there _is_ a “dumb jock and proud of it” mentality that high school jocks often have (or at least _had_ back when I was in high school. Not all jocks are “dumb jocks” but there _are_ (were?) plenty of dumb jocks with the “dumb is good” mentality. > [@](#): > > In any event, **Fenris** , glad to see your return, big hugs. Thanks and hugs right back atcha, pal! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/155 "2004-03-06T17:04:09Z")
Dude,have the humility to say, “I don’t understand.” If **Lib** or anyone else uses an unfamiliar word, go to [m-w.com](http://m-w.com) and look it up. If a concept is introduced, Google it. You have an opportunity to learn, but you are only using it to whine that people are being unfair. Learn to find your answers on your own, not have them spoonfed to you. And for Jah’s sake, stop sniveling and be a man. ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Have_I_Because_I)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/156 "2004-03-06T17:05:58Z")
I will stop ‘sniveling’ when people stop misintrepreting my words. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/157 "2004-03-06T17:08:05Z")
> [@Never Have I Because I](#): > > I do not need dumbing down. If someone does not understand something, is it that hard to clarify? To put it into simpler terms? But that is what your whole complaint has been about. Sheesh. I just quoted you above. You complained about the big words. You assumed that he was putting on airs, using the words and references out of pretense rather than knowledge. The rest of us know him better than you do, and no one else that I know of thinks there is any pretense with him on this matter. Either ask what the big words mean or look them up yourself. But don’t whine. Don’t blame _him_ because he expresses himself in a manner that is is typical for him (and moreover, quite acceptable on this board). I think this bears repeating: > [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > There are people smarter than you, who may talk about things you don’t understand. Let that sink in for a moment. Really. Let it sink in. It’s a truth that we _all_ must face. The sooner you accept it, the more peaceful your life will be. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/158 "2004-03-06T17:09:26Z")
> [@Never Have I Because I](#): > > I will stop ‘sniveling’ when people stop misintrepreting my words. Your words **will** be misinterpreted. It happens to me all the time here, but the defense to that is to have a coherent grip on your central idea, which you seem to lack. Lay out your argument in simple declarative sentences so that you can say, “THIS is my message, and not THAT.” ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Never\_Have\_I\_Because\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Have_I_Because_I)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/159 "2004-03-06T17:09:31Z")
Mods, please close this thread. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835/160 "2004-03-06T17:11:12Z")
> [@Never Have I Because I](#): > > You seem angry and exasperated, and I’m sorry if I troubled you. I’m neither, and you didn’t, though I thank you for your concern. Any respone to my points, though? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-a-bully-a-bully-bully/232835.md?page=9)