# Libertarian is STILL an idiot. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174 "2004-07-08T21:37:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/121 "2004-07-10T00:40:01Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You’re pretty much right. Although I’ve never been banned from any message board, I have voluntarily left three… This is disingenuous at best, a flat out lie at worst. You want people to judge you on your current posting habits, fine – but don’t whitewash the past. Doesn’t show very good character. You “voluntarily left” these boards after a massive meltdown with the mods. That really wasn’t that long ago, was it? I’m glad you’ve had some sort of revelation in the past few months, but it may be harder to convince folks that such changes are really to be trusted from someone so unstable. And since your humble return you haven’t exactly been an example of SDMB excellence in posting. You spend an inordinate amount of time in the Pit, where you seem to continue to piss off a whole mess of people. Perhaps you should stick to the other fora for a while. And if you really are a 49 year old grandfather, then please stop using the condescending bullshit “You must be young…I remember when…” line. I can assure you there are plently of folks far older and wiser – who have learned the value of “less is more”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/122 "2004-07-10T01:02:13Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Ah, now Daniel takes it upon himself to share the precise name of **Liberal** ’s medication. Why stop there, dude? As long as you’re making assumptions based on his apparently having shared this info at some point, you might as well go whole hog, regardless of it being _none of our fucking business_. > > So aren’t you gonna tell us all what the exact diagnosis is that requires the prescription? And what dosage he’s on? Who dispensed it, a good doctor or a quack? Has he been skipping it lately? Does it give him the runs, is he gaining weight? Do you think his fingers have gotten too fat to mash into the keyboard, which pisses him off and thus makes him do one of his drivebys? :rolleyes: Kiss my ass. I share with you what he told me, in public, no more and no less. If he’s off the drugs, and if his latest unfounded aggressiveness is entirely due to his own personality, then I erred; not otherwise. If it were none of our fucking business, he ought not have told us in the first place. Jesus. Talk about bringing your own personal issues into the deal. > [@Lib](#): > > No, I don’t believe that is the case. I believe that you asked me not to call centrists zombies and thieves. Quite obviously, I do not believe that liberals are zombies and thieves. You, play disingenuous word games? Pardon me while I pick my jaw up off the floor. > [@](#): > > Well, then, we must have had a misunderstanding. I will consider myself unbound. Maybe that misunderstanding was the spur that was between us. No: that’s not the spur between us. The spur between us is pretty similar to the spur between yourself and many other members of this messageboard. Figure that out, and you’ll be on your way to repairing our relationship. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/123 "2004-07-10T01:19:50Z")
Umm, Mr. Moderator? I understand that even here in the PIT, one should not constantly turn someones poster-name into an insult (altho then, I don’t know where you were when one poster kept calling me “DrDerth”, but that’s another story 😛 ). But calling “Lberal” by his old user name “Libertarian” is hardly an _insult_ is it? After all- “Libertarian” is what he originally picked for himself, and enjoyed the use of for years. And, few would think that calling someone a “Libertarian” is really an insult. . Not to mention- I think that there was a “sea-change” in his opinions & posting-style pre & post name change, so it could be useful for some to refer to his “Libertarian” period posts and his “Liberal” period posts. But you’re the Mod, so whatever you say. You did make yourself very clear, and thank you for that. However, OTOH, his postings _did_ change quite a bit, so I have no problem with a name change- although I agree with all of you who say “Lib” would have been better. 🆒 Anywho- “The poster formally known as Libertarian but now calling himself Liberal” 😃 is hardly an “idiot”. He has made a change for the worse since his name change- IMHO- becoming more strident, more sarcastic, and less thought-ful _and_ less thought-provoking in his posts. Sorry “Lib” - but “I calls 'em as I sees 'em”. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/124 "2004-07-10T02:03:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Anywho- “The poster formally known as Libertarian but now calling himself Liberal” 😃 is hardly an “idiot”. Depends on what you mean by “idiot”. Certainly, he’s knowledgable, but I have yet to see a moment where he actually learns something. So I see a lack of learning capability, or a lack of will. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/125 "2004-07-10T04:19:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Please clarify the perception you had of his manner a couple of years ago. I detected a “kinder, gentler” **Lib** a couple of years ago. I’ve always liked his insight and his tendency to send me scrambling for a dictionary. When his comments became more barbed and hostile, I wondered if he has a mood disorder. (I do, and that helps me to be a little more tolerant – _to a point._) I am hoping for a return to a more centered \*_Lib_, but such centeredness is only from my point of view anyway. I do commiserate with Lissener and I miss learning from **Lib**. I don’t learn well from people who try to humiliate others. I love **Lib** anyway. I respect his political viewpoint and wish he respected mine, but he generalizes too much to do that. He has good taste in TV shows though. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/126 "2004-07-10T04:20:44Z")
Aaaargh! Sorry for the mess on the coding. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/127 "2004-07-10T05:52:07Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > No: that’s not the spur between us. The spur between us is pretty similar to the spur between yourself and many other members of this messageboard. Figure that out, and you’ll be on your way to repairing our relationship. **Daniel** : You and I have sparred on occasion as well, with me always winding up on the “losing” end. So please take the following as you will. I honestly think you’re being used. Most people - rightly or wrongly - prefer not to spend the time trying to sort out what that particular spur is, because we feel such an endeavor would be fruitless. Because you’ve enjoyed creative debate from time to time with him, you’ve been lulled into thinking that debate was meaningful. I submit that debate’s not meaningful if one of the parties does not come away with more knowledge than he started with, and my perception is that one of you is simply toying and patronizing the other. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/128 "2004-07-10T10:53:01Z")
hehehehehe **El Cid Viscoso** , thanks for the laugh. 🙂 **choie** , I’m with you on this. The fact that **Liberal** told us he takes / used to take, medicines doesn’t mean some dickhead can use it again and again in his posts, just because he has nothing interesting to contribute. Didn’t **gobear** have something similar happening to him? Some asshole reminding us over and over that **gobear** is gay? Even when it had _nothing_ to do with the subject being discussed. I merely find it distasteful. And very immature. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/129 "2004-07-10T11:15:01Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > Hey gum, I’m with you, but good heavens, this drama’s about prednisone. I’d seen it sprinkled all over the boards, Liberal’s Dirty Drug Secrets, and had been led to believe the medications allegations were about “bennies” or “greenies” or “'ludes”. Sometimes I’d lean toward “yellow jackets.” And there was always an outside chance of “goof-balls”. Recently, I’d come to the conclusion it was “gop”. And he was surely gooped up, but good. But prednisone? Steroids? What I had was a herniated disc that was pinching the hell out of my sciatic nerve. I was in constant escruciating pain that shot like lightning bolts down my right leg from my hip to my foot. These lasted all day long, and even during the night, day after damnable day. After two months and three doctors, I finally was referred to a neurologist who prescribed Prednisone and Percocet. I was on the Preds for a couple of weeks, the second week being nothing but weaning and withdrawal. Neither the drugs nor thrice weekly physical therapy were any help at all, except that the drugs deluded me into thinking I was a manly man for enduring the pain. Finally, I was scheduled for a spinal epidural. (Incidentally, almost all of this is documented here. I pretty much shared the experience with everyone.) I had to sign the waiver from hell that informed me that I might be paralyzed, or have worse pain, or die. There was a one in one hundred chance that I would have a headache so bad the next day, that I would need to go to the emergency room. There was a 30% chance that I would be cured. The doctor had me lie on my side, facing the wall away from him. I did not feel the injection since my back was topically numbed. But when his needle found the sciatic nerve, my knees slammed into the wall, and I cried like a baby as he discharged the medicine directly onto the nerve at the disc. This was a Friday. Saturday, no headache came. On Monday morning, I awoke pain-free for the first time in months. Not so much as a tingle. Two days later, I called my physical therapist and told him I was cured. I also called my neurologist and told her (the man was her colleague) that I would not need the operation that we had tentatively scheduled. The only drugs I take now are Pepcid AC, aspirin, and Tylenol. Daniel and a couple of others apparently made assumptions about me and ongoing medications, and continue to do so. > [@Daniel](#): > > No: that’s not the spur between us. The spur between us is pretty similar to the spur between yourself and many other members of this messageboard. Figure that out, and you’ll be on your way to repairing our relationship. Actually, there are many with whom I have no spur. There are a few with whom I do. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Certainly, he’s knowledgable, but I have yet to see a moment where he actually learns something. I’ve learned quite much in my five years. In the past week alone, I’ve learned about copyright law, and how Michael Moore did not violate it for his film title. I’ve learned that it was not the Republican Congress of 1994 that passed the assault weapons ban. I’ve learned why Kittinger did not vaporize when he tumbled to the earth from 20 miles in space. I’ve also learned about Amazing Race. In general, wherever I have said that I stand corrected, or that I’ve made an error, or that I was mistaken, or have asked a question — and there are many such times — I have learned something. I have even learned from you. > [@Zoe](#): > > When his comments became more barbed and hostile, I wondered if he has a mood disorder. It was a drug induced mood disorder. But I have made hundreds of posts since that time. Some have been barbed, some maybe even hostile. But others have been posts offering help to people with ADHD, sympathizing with victims of kidney stones, sharing insights about Jeopardy, Queer as Folk, and Big Brother 5. I’ve responded to IMHO polls, advised people about messed-up keyboards, and shared my personal moral journey with people in GD who asked for guidance. I’ve also joined in with Bush bashing, but I think what some people have perceived as “hostile” are my posts that bash their own political darlings, like the Clintons, or Kerry, or Edwards (about whom I’ll be posting a Pit thread soon), or their own political philosophy. Especially the last one. But as the record shows, my own philosophy has been bashed for five years, usually by the same ones, like Ludovic and Leander, who feign outrage when the same is done to them. In short, I’m just a rather ordinary poster who happens to embrace an unpopular (here, at any rate) political philosophy and worldview. From my own vantage point, I think I have greatly mellowed over the years. I used to become quite hot-headed and even cruel in debates over such things as libertarianism. Now, I state my opinion and deliberately avoid, wherever possible, being dragged into hijacks about hypotheticals and so-forth. That does not, however, prevent two or three detractors on a mission from jumping into a thread and making an issue of me and my views. When I respond to them, THEY accuse ME of hijacking. Daniel has even done this quite recently in Great Debates. As I said, having modded at Philosophy Forums, I have a different take on things now. I don’t view every issue as life and death. I can’t do anything about my past. And I can’t really do anything about ongoing perceptions. What I’ve decided to do is be myself. Those who like me like me, and those who don’t don’t. And that’s fine by me. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/130 "2004-07-10T12:37:29Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Sez _you_, GOOFE! > > 😛 That’s what you think, Cryin’ Peckers. [sub]sorry, just trying to make an otherwise boring thread fun.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/131 "2004-07-10T18:09:37Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > In general, wherever I have said that I stand corrected, or that I’ve made an error, or that I was mistaken, or have asked a question — and there are many such times — I have learned something. hmmm, I must have missed most of these. > [@](#): > > But as the record shows, my own philosophy has been bashed for five years, usually by the same ones, like Ludovic and Leander, who feign outrage when the same is done to them. I don’t bash your philosophy: I honestly debate it. I bash your debate style, such as it is. > [@](#): > > I used to become quite hot-headed and even cruel in debates over such things as libertarianism. Now you’re just cryptic and smug. Most of the time that is. > [@](#): > > That does not, however, prevent two or three detractors on a mission from jumping into a thread and making an issue of me and my views. When I respond to them, THEY accuse ME of hijacking. It IS ironic that the change in your name has sparked more debates than it has cured. For, since you are a fairly prolific poster, I think it is intellectually dishonest to do unexplained drive-bys, then complain of being piled on. EXCEPT when the subject was Libertarianism. Despite the fact that choosing that name was sort of setting yourself up to be a target for those who want to hijack the debate into Libertaria, the frequency with which it occurred would outweigh most people’s patience in discussing any subject, not only Libertaria. And then you changed the name and the debate continues. Again, despite the fact that I agree with those who think you chose the name to deliver another cheap whoosh of those who do not consider every possible meaning of a word, they should just get over it, already. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/132 "2004-07-10T18:31:12Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > hmmm, I must have missed most of these. Well, then. Keep your wits about you in the future. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/133 "2004-07-10T19:41:03Z")
I see a point in complaints about username abuse. To take a hypothetical, suppose we had someone with the username **Lucifer** or **Lucinda**. Cruel and sardonic posters might shorten such to 'Luci, and make snide inferences to Ricky Retardo, running around banging on a bongo and shouting “BOB-A-looooooo!!” or saying something like “'Luci, you got some 'splaining to do!!” This is so obviously wrong no further explication is needed. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/134 "2004-07-11T02:08:19Z")
**Lib** , you and you alone are responsible for your reputation here. When you learn _that_, your life will change. I guarantee it. ---
**Author:** ![Edlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8797f3/32.png) [@Edlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edlyn)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/135 "2004-07-11T03:36:49Z")
His life will change? This is a message board. That’s all it is and all it will ever be. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/136 "2004-07-11T03:41:47Z")
> [@Edlyn](#): > > His life will change? > > This is a message board. That’s all it is and all it will ever be. To someone with over 16.5k posts, this is clearly not _just_ a message board. (Who am I to talk?) ---
**Author:** ![Edlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8797f3/32.png) [@Edlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edlyn)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/137 "2004-07-11T04:37:45Z")
That would likely be true for a lot of people, but **Lib** is superbly fast and efficient in any task he does, posting here included. He doesn’t spend any more time on this board than he does watching tv and the combination of both do not dominate his day. I thought it was a bit out of touch with reality to suggest that a person’s life would change because of a reputation on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174/138 "2004-07-11T05:28:19Z")
If this thread ever had a useful point, it’s been well and truly obscured by smoke, heat, smouldering, lots more smoke, possibly a few mirrors and plenty of smoke, but damned little in way of actual illumination. I’m locking it off in the spirit of a mercy killiing, not because it’s just plain too dreary, pointless and stupid to live any longer. Gack. TVeblen [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-is-still-an-idiot/254174.md?page=6)