# Libertarian Island Countries Being Built **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 16, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930 "2011-08-16T18:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/1 "2011-08-16T18:34:03Z")
Story [here](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/silicon-valley-billionaire-funding-creation-artificial-libertarian-islands-140840896.html) on Yahoo!. Floating oil-rig style countries with few laws? What are the odds that such a society succeeds? This quote makes me dubious: > [@](#): > > the experiment would be “a kind of floating petri dish for implementing policies that libertarians, stymied by indifference at the voting booths, have been unable to advance: no welfare, looser building codes, no minimum wage, and few restrictions on weapons.” ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/2 "2011-08-16T18:48:50Z")
I like this quote: > [@](#): > > “There are quite a lot of people who think it’s not possible,” Thiel said at a Seasteading Institute Conference in 2009, according to Details. (His first donation was in 2008, for $500,000.) “That’s a good thing. We don’t need to really worry about those people very much, because since they don’t think it’s possible they won’t take us very seriously. And they will not actually try to stop us until it’s too late.” Why would anybody want to stop them to begin with? I get the feeling these people have read _Atlas Shrugged_ a few too many times. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/3 "2011-08-16T19:10:56Z")
Bioshock? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/4 "2011-08-16T19:21:48Z")
Floating sea platforms with “looser building codes”. Oh yes, that will work. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/5 "2011-08-16T19:26:55Z")
Sealand wasn’t political, but it’s been going… uh… well for 44 years. The Free State Project tried to build a libertarian paradise in New Hampshire or something like that. If that is a relatively difficult task, then how are you going to convince people to move to the middle of nowhere? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/6 "2011-08-16T19:35:11Z")
When all of these wealthy libertarians move there, who are going to do all of the mundane day to day stuff for them? Who’s going to move there for less than minimum wage jobs? They’d probably end up importing a bunch of desperate third world people to work for slave wages. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/7 "2011-08-16T19:40:13Z")
I see a grand opportunity for piracy. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/8 "2011-08-16T19:50:12Z")
> [@Dahlnor](#): > > I see a grand opportunity for piracy. I’ll do it. I’ve always wanted to go full [Dennis Hopper](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoSLZP0e-M4&feature=relmfu) on somebody. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/9 "2011-08-16T20:29:02Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > When all of these wealthy libertarians move there, who are going to do all of the mundane day to day stuff for them? Who’s going to move there for less than minimum wage jobs? > > They’d probably end up importing a bunch of desperate third world people to work for slave wages. Though as long as you pay above the minimum in the country of origin, it’s probably in the clear both legally and morally as long as the migrant worker is free to return home at will. Their bigger challenge will be convincing regular sovereign nations that they are under no authority but their own. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/10 "2011-08-17T01:59:02Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > I see a grand opportunity for piracy. > [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I’ll do it. I’ve always wanted to go full [Dennis Hopper](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoSLZP0e-M4&feature=relmfu) on somebody. It’s happened. The Prime Minister of Sealand staged a coup and took the Prince Regent hostage a few years ago. The Prince (the father of the Prince Regent, in case you’re confused) went back to the mainland, hired some mercenaries, and re-invaded. Be careful; these sorts of places can be their own sovereign nations and may take a favorable view of “castle doctrine”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/11 "2011-08-17T02:57:14Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I like this quote: > > > [@](#): > > > > : > > “There are quite a lot of people who think it’s not possible,” Thiel said at a Seasteading Institute Conference in 2009, according to Details. (His first donation was in 2008, for $500,000.) "That’s a good thing. We don’t need to really worry about those people very much, because since they don’t think it’s possible they won’t take us very seriously. And they will not actually try to stop us until it’s too late. > > Why would anybody want to stop them to begin with? Because of the giant laser and army of masked minions, of course! I mean, ultra rich guy…giant ocean base…makes speeches about how “they won’t try to stop us until it’s TOO LATE!” I can see where this is going. The main question is, will it be James Bond or the Justice League that shows up? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/12 "2011-08-17T03:56:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because of the giant laser and army of masked minions, of course! I mean, ultra rich guy…giant ocean base…makes speeches about how “they won’t try to stop us until it’s TOO LATE!” I can see where this is going. The main question is, will it be James Bond or the Justice League that shows up? I’m holding out for Remo Williams. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/13 "2011-08-17T06:14:40Z")
If they want to make a go of this, they’re going to need to produce export goods. (I’m assuming they won’t be able to be a self-sufficient economy.) They’re going to need to export enough to have a favorable balance of trade so they can import the food and other necessities their island doesn’t produce. I don’t see any reason they can’t theoretically set up a manufacturing economy (although there will be a lot of practical difficulties but let’s ignore those for now.) They can find poor people who would be willing to come to the island and work for low wages. Their main problem will be that a small economy is a fragile economy. They’re not going to have the reserves to weather any bad luck. And all this is assuming they run this as a legit libertarian society and don’t cheat. It would be easy to make this a libertarian-in-name-only society and build an economy around something like an international casino or bank. Then you just rely on people living in other non-libertarian countries to visit your island and leave some of their wealth there. But that would only prove that libertarianism can work if is has a non-libertarian society to be a parasite off of. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/14 "2011-08-17T09:25:20Z")
I read about this and my first thought was: “Rich guy wants attention.” Maybe Trump’s already done most of the attention grabbing stuff and he’s trying something different? I mean, Paul Allen already built the coolest [yacht](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wirecyber.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/e7aba0e9b1bc1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wirecyber.com/2009/04/18/world-class-luxury-cruise/&h=406&w=570&sz=44&tbnid=bAMqzaa1MFvRIM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=131&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpaul%2Ballen%2Boctopus%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=paul+allen+octopus&docid=z6wf2oSbGOBNDM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XodLTvX5HaiesQK74tWkCA&ved=0CCgQ9QEwAw&dur=681), so this guy needs to branch out. Seriously, 1 and a quarter million? That’ll barely cover the fuel bill on his jet this year. Hardly enough for a floating country. This one pegs my BS meter. My guess is it’s no different than when a celebrity gets pregnant, or shaves her head, or goes into his 3rd rehab. A wealthy narcissist wasn’t getting enough attention, and like the toddler banging mommie’s pots on the kitchen floor, he made us look. Then again, maybe I’m too cynical. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/15 "2011-08-17T10:40:06Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > Seriously, 1 and a quarter million? That’ll barely cover the fuel bill on his jet this year. Hardly enough for a floating country. > > This one pegs my BS meter. My guess is it’s no different than when a celebrity gets pregnant, or shaves her head, or goes into his 3rd rehab. A wealthy narcissist wasn’t getting enough attention, and like the toddler banging mommie’s pots on the kitchen floor, he made us look. > > Then again, maybe I’m too cynical. Or not cynical enough; another possibility is that he’ll try to get other rich egomaniacs to contribute to his “vision”; it could easily be a scam aimed at the wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/16 "2011-08-17T12:38:09Z")
If he infringes on my Floating Citadel of Doom, I’m suing his ass. From Orbit. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/17 "2011-08-17T15:36:31Z")
This quote from Bioshock seems appropriate: Frank Fontaine: These sad saps. They come to Rapture thinking they’re gonna be captains of industry, but they all forget that somebody’s gotta scrub the toilets. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/18 "2011-08-17T15:39:38Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > I see a grand opportunity for piracy. Pirate Leader: Arrrrh! We be Pirates invadin’ yer fake island! Give us all yer money! Libertarians: We haven’t got any! ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/19 "2011-08-17T16:49:47Z")
I would love to see this actually happen. If it works out well then more power to them and they will all stay there and enjoy their political paradise and if it crashes and burns maybe some of the people I know who espouse these views will shut the hell up about paying taxes being the same thing as being mugged by the government. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930/20 "2011-08-17T17:19:38Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > I see a grand opportunity for piracy. Yeah, my first thought was “Mos Eisley spaceport: you will not find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.” The second was a bizarre mashup of Dolly Parton/Kenny Rogers’ duet “Islands In The Stream” and Styx’s “Come Sail Away”. And maybe Chris DeBurgh, “Don’t Pay The Ferryman”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-island-countries-being-built/592930.md?page=2)